Countdown To Tubal: Post Tubal Ligation Syndrome? (MOVED!)

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Posted on 2011/07/09, in Atheism, childfree, Countdown To Tubal, Diary, Feminism, Prochoice, Science and tagged , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 330 Comments.

  1. You have to look at the age range of women who get tubal ligations (or other sterilization procedures). You will find that the majority who get them are in their mid-to-late 30s or early 40s. When I went for my Essure consultation, my gynecologist made it a a point to tell me that some women have the procedure and then mistake normal peri-menopausal symptoms for some sort of horrible side effect from the procedure. It isn’t; it’s NORMAL age-related changes! You would have them regardless of whether or not you had a tubal or Essure.

    I had Essure when I was 39. On cue,I’ve had bizarre problems erupt right before I turned 40. These weren’t even problems I would associate with my reproductive organs; they are mainly digestive issues. Still, I had one doctor (a gastroenterologist) suggest that all of my issues were stemming from depression because I haven’t had children. (?!!!) Yes, I found another doctor, but all of them have made some offhanded comment about my choice to be sterilized, which is BULLSHIT.

    Women who don’t want children are, in general, regarded with suspicion in the medical community. Something must be wrong with us. We’re probably mentally ill in some way, which causes us 1) not to want to do our womanly duty and breed or 2) makes us crazy after we’ve willfully sterilized ourselves (this Post Tubal Ligation Syndrome thing). Be prepared to explain yourself whenever you need medical attention for ANYTHING, even if it’s not related to your uterus or ovaries. From here on out, your entire opinion on what is wrong with your body is suspect because you’re one of those crazy childless women who went and tinkered with her lady parts in an “unnatural” way.

    • Julie Was Here

      How are you not already on my blogroll? Well, you are now.

      Yeah, I agree, many of the supposed symptoms of PTLS are the same as those for pre menopause, which is a point I made in my post. Hell the symptoms of PTLS are so vague that they could be fucking anything, really.

      I’m sorry that doctor was such a douche to you. He’s a sexist douche and probably also too lazy to look for the real source of your problem, or just doesn’t want to admit that he has no fucking clue.

      It’s amazing how many people view women as nothing more than breeding machines, and even more disturbing when even women accept such a harmful view.

    • I think that you are being a bit close minded. I have found that most people who seem to react well to birth control and pregnancy and Iud’s also seem to do well with the tubal ligation.

      I became deathly sick from birth control pills and tried every kind possible and none worked. I have struggled with extreme homonal changes every month a few days before my period for years. The doctor has put me on medicine that I take the week before it comes and then I can stop the day after it starts and I am fine.

      I tried an IUD once against my mother in laws addice that it would hurt me and cause damage. I did it anyway and I bleed for 3 months straight with terrible pain. I had to have it removed. Afterwards I got pregnant 3 times and miscarried. Then I had a baby die in the womb and it was removed D & C. I talked to a specialist who said that even though it is not talked about a lot, it is common for the scar tissue from the IUD, to cause these problems. After the D & C I was able to become pregnant. I was told that the scrapping of the Uterus fixed my problem and removed the scar tissue caused by the IUD.

      I have given birth to 3 children and have one on the way since this. I have decided that I am finished having children but I am terrified of the consequences of the tubal ligations. I have read that there is a decress in blood flow in the capilaries due to the scaring and this often the cause of the post tubal ligation syndrom.

      Since I am very sensitive to hormones and changes in my body I am trying to find out if there are certain tubal ligation proceedures that may be less damaging to my capilaries and tissue, I want to do the least amount of tampering with the enviornment hoping that I won’t run into more problems.

      I have friends and family who seem to do fine with many different proceedures but I know that my birth mother did not. So I want to be as cautious as possible.!

      • Julie Was Here

        I weep for the sake of humanity when basing conclusions on evidentiary support is to be called “closed minded.” As it is, there is plenty of evidence against PTLS, and no evidence for it. Yet, I wrote in my piece that until any evidencary support for PTLS can be found, I am left unconvinced. Um, I’m being pretty open-minded here, only saying that I’m not convinced but would revisit the matter should new evidence come to light. What’s your idea of open-mindedness? Blindly accepting anything you’re told without evidence, or even despite evidence against it? What a way to live.

        There’s been no evidence whatsoever that tubal ligation has any affect whatsoever on hormone levels. None. But if you’re really worried about, you might look into non-surgical means of sterilization like Essure and Adiana. Hope that helps.

        • open minded

          Well as a woman whose life was turned upside down after a tubal ligation, had all types of tests nothing showing a cause to my 40 plus “symptoms, side effects”, whatever you want to call it not even doctors can tell you, they just want to put u on antidepressants & or cut you up. Well my symptoms were less about periods & more about quality of life, because now I have none for those of you saying there is “no medical evidence” whatsoever to prove that TL causes these things, maybe you shouldn’t be so “closed minded”, have you researched the women who have had it reversed these symptoms have gone, I hope you dont have to go through these things that some women & myself suffer everyday of our lives. As far as before my TL I was not on bc, had 4 healthy normal pregnancies, my 5th pregnancy after my TL, first time I had cysts on my ovaries, not enough milk to feed my new baby, 13 years on I’m no better & getting worse, not only has it stolen my life but also my children, if I hadn’t come across PTLS on Google, btw thankyou to the women who posted on there, I would still b consulting my doctor searching & having tests to tell me why this is happening when I never had any issues before the surgery. No I am not a doctor either but I know my body & I don’t know if its hormones or lack of blood supply, (which is what it feels like inside my body), but it is not the same. It wasn’t just 1 or 2 things that changed for me it was almost everything on that PTLS list of symptoms & they were big changes not little ones that you could hardly notice its like your body has decided to attack itself & break down. I could go on but I’m leaving it there for now.

          • Julie Was Here

            I may be remembering incorrectly, but I do believe that you are the second or third person on this page to accuse me of being “closed minded.” Indeed, I am so closed-minded that I am only willing to accept that which is demonstratively true, rather than just mindlessly buying into whatever any ignorant Joe Shmoe claims. OK, sarcasm – off.

            You know what’s really closed-minded? Ignoring scientific studies that debunk something you desperately want to believe in. And it’s funny what people will claim to be PTLS. I mean, the most common symptoms are also common in anyone else who has NOT been fixed, especially women who have given birth.

            And everything imaginable is counted as a symptom. Have the sniffles? You were fixed 10 years ago? It must be PTLS. You haven’t been fixed? Oh, well, we should probably look for the actual cause and treat it then.

            You don’t need to hope that I won’t get PTLS, because I won’t. I can’t get that which does not exist. It’s impossible. There is nothing about a tubal that would cause any of the “side effects” claimed. A fallopian tube plays no role except to act as a passage way connecting each ovary to the uterus. They do not produce hormones, nor do they transfer blood, in fact, they perform no real function at all besides act as a mostly useless tube.

            For PTLS to be a real thing, women claiming to have PTLS must have some kind of magic fallopian tubes which perform an unknown function which no one else’s fallopian tubes perform, a function which that person needs but, strangely, no one else does. Every body is different, but no body is magic.

            Here’s the thing, even if PTLS was real and tubal ligation caused it, a reversal would not fix it! All the doctors do when they perform a reversal is reconnect fallopian tubes, which do nothing but facilitate the movement of an egg. To me, the fact that women can claim to be cured after having a reversal only demonstrates that the condition was in their head.

            • Ellen Mary

              A tubal is an *intervention* therefore it must be proven safe, not proven risky. I suggest you acquaint yourself with the precautionary principle. And how feminist is altering YOUR body to bear the contraceptive burden? I am capable of managing my fertility without drugs or surgery (because I have taken science courses & can collect & interpret data) but you can be SURE that I am feminist enough to know that it is not feminist to bear the contraceptive burden: I would be getting my man a vasectomy were I to chose that route.

              • Julie Was Here

                Tubal locations ARE proven safe. That is why the procedure is approved for use.

                If anyone wants to say that a syndrome exists, that must be proven. As it is, it’s only been disproven.

                Are you saying that I’m not feminist because I took control of my body and freely chose to do what I wanted with it based upon goals that I also formed myself? How many times do you have to be dropped in your head to reach that idea?

                Don’t confuse feminism with misandry, Mrs. “I would be getting my man a vasectomy.” You get to control YOUR body, no one else’s. I guess you just don’t love or respect your partner as much as I do mine. Does your husband know that you see him as your personal property?

                One more thing, no one is buying your pretend scientific credentials. For one thing, you clearly do not understand the scientific method. For another, your E-mail address is Root-mama. Roots. Really? I hope that’s not the better-than-real-medically-proven-contraception you were blathering in about because, if so, it’s no wonder you’re a mama.

                Oh, and by the way, how feminist do you think it is to see your relationship to another person as your identity, “mama?”

              • I consider myself a feminist even though I have had a tubal. When it came to something as important as my decision to be childfree, I wasn’t going to leave that in the hands (or calendars) of anyone else. I religiously took the pill for 20 years until I convinced a doctor I was really serious about never having children. As the only person in the equation that could have become pregnant, how to prevent that from happening was solely my decision. There is nothing un-feminist about taking control of one’s body. In fact, feminism is predicated on the idea that women should be able to take control of their bodies, minds, lives, careers, etc. It’s also all about choices. I, and many other childfree women, have chosen to become sterilized, not because we carried the burden of doing so, but because we wanted to!

              • scotia1980

                It is every person’s (be they man or woman) responsibility to take care of their own reproduction, especially when they are childfree. Even if my boyfriend was willing to have a vasectomy, I STILL would have had a tubal because now I know for a fact that I am taken care of. I have taken my life and my freedom into my own hands. Also, your drivel about forcing the man to get a vasectomy sounds like the opposite of feminism to me… just like back in the old days when the man went out and did all the hard work while the woman stayed home. Stop kidding yourself!

              • Julie Was Here

                I once was asked once by my OB/GYN and once by a reporter why I didn’t just have not boyfriend have a vasectomy, as if he was a dog and the neutering decision was mine to make. I gave the same answers both times. 1. His body is not mine. It is not my place to decide for him, pressure him into, or even so much as ask that he get a vasectomy. 2. Even if he did get a vasectomy, I would STILL would get a tubal for a number of reasons, but mostly because I believe in taking responsibility for my own life in every way that I reasonably can.

            • openminded

              Julie was here, if you search into google “why can’t tubal ligation cause a hormone imbalance’, you maybe suprised by the result. You are being closed minded by saying you cant get something that dosent exist, it is one of those things that some people just have problems with and some dont, doctors dont want to admit it for the fear of litigation and fertility specialists may lose some money if they dont have the choice on how much they can charge to reverse it. Doctors are not gods, they can assume but they dont actually know everything, how much surgery is really exploritory, you know as well as i that they make new advances and studies everyday, there will come a time when they will have to finally admit that a tubal ligation, essure, hysterectomy etc can wreak havoc on some womens lives, for you to call me ignorant you have no idea what toll it takes on your life or that of your family. It will indeed put me in an early grave if I cant find a way to afford to have it reversed. That is how severe these “symptoms /side effects” are, while your at it you look my kids in the eyes while im going through this and tell them im making it up & it dosent exist. Your complete contempt for me and women like me I cant believe it. You say the fallopian tube is useless except for the passage of the egg, how do you truely know that is true, do you always blindly believe everything another person tells you, docotrs dont travel in our fallopian tubes so how can they say exactly without a shadow of a doubt that cutting our tubes dosent have some consequences, they are there for a reason. If you read some reports that are not “anti” PTLS you can see that blood vessels can be damaged during the TL that may infact cause these things to happen. Read both sides of the argument. For your information I was always a strong fit person, my life is the complete opposite and all i want is quality of life and not have to fight everyday to just exist. When you have had every test and there is still no answer what do you suggest, i am on no medication because “there is nothing wrong” according to tests, and yet my family can actually see the effects it has on my body, i cant express to you how scary it is when you get no answers but your body just will not function. It is not in my head.

              • Julie Was Here

                Yep. I’m so “closed-minded” I’m only willing to deal with REALITY. Facts. Demonstrable and measurable truths. I base my conclusions on scientific study and reason – not by google and not by just making shit up.

                If you want to mindlessly believe in nonsense just because someone said it, I have a unicorn to sell you. What, you believe in my unicorn, right? Nevermind that I’m unable to prove it and that a basic understanding of evolutionary biology disproves it. I said it, so it MUST be true. You’re not “closed-minded” are you?

                Get real. Your anti-intellectualism and, yes, ignorance, is ridiculous. Prove your case or concede it. I’ve presented solid evidence. Where is yours? The burden of proof is upon you.

                I’m sorry if you’re not able to find the real cause of your illness, but that’s no cause to go making shit up. The sun isn’t borne across the sky by Helios and his chariot either.

              • patrice maxwell

                Eloquently put. Thank you

  2. Very nicely written Blog post…
    I do however have to pop on here and give my story…
    I was 25 when I had my tubal ligation/ resection done, after my 4th child was born, and immediately noticed severe issues after. 2 days after surgery,My liver gallbladder and spleen were inflamed, and VERY swollen, I went back to the hospital where i had it done, and had a hew follow up test and everything showed fine except the ultrasound of the above mention organs. Meanwhile, I lost my milk supply (which was never a issue in any other pregnancy and I had the exact same both/ epidural etc) and started having super bad anxiety attack, which I attributed to possible post par tum depression etc… anyway months past, and I start losing my hair and crap… went to the DR and had some tests (hormones cycle day 3 labs etc) and sure enough my levels were off, especially for being almost 26 at this point.Time went on and I kept having more issues, I stumbled upon PTLS info, and I had almost everyone. I again went back to the DR’s with some of the new info and had more tests to rule out any other cause. My OB disagreed with me but my primary DR was behind me all the way. We went over possible treatments, but i was unable to use most of them due to family history. As time went on, I research having a reversal, and just shy of 2 years after my ligation, went and had it reversed. I am now 4 months post reversal and have 90% of the issues i faced with the PTLS are GONE… if there is no such thing? how do you explain life altering symptoms that came on suddenly after the tubal, and have medical tests to prove it…then suddenly vanish after a reversal? Psychological? I think NOT… My blood tests can even prove it…and my cycles, are back to normal!! and I can prove that too as I have been charting for over 16 months to show the difference in before and after! there may not me that much studies done on PTLS at the moment but that will change soon!
    I really do hope that you do NOT end up with it, and it hold up as a positive form of birth control, I wish I had had it that easy for sure!
    Oh and just to add, my mother had the SAME thing happen and it threw her into early menopause…although then she had NO idea why or what was going on… hindsight is always 20/20…also, it would be good if you went back over some of the studies and really researched them a bit.. i have found them to be a bit misleading when you get down to the fine print…for instance, the “CREST” study was done primarily to study the failure rates of the ligation’s, not side effects, that is not a very accurate study at all, though it seems to be the one DR;s claim to quote the most…Just food for thought!
    Have a nice day!

    • Julie Was Here

      I’m very sorry you went through that, however anecdotes are not proof.

      Why would severing Fallopian tubes alter hormones? Nicking the uterus or ovaries might, but it’s my understanding that the Fallopian tubes have nothing to do with hormone production or reception. To back up this point one study which I’m pretty sure I’ve cited, stated that tubal ligation don’t appear to cause any significant hormonal changes. I don’t know what CREST study you’re referring to.

      If a woman lost her ovaries, the hormonal impact would be measurable, and would be more or less the same for all women who had that happen to them. Why would only a small minority of women report the claimed PTLS symptoms after a tubal, while the vast majority do not? I’m aware that different people’s bodies work differently, but our organs still do the same things. And why wouldn’t a successful reversal fix ALL of the symptoms?

      My question is, can you PROVE that the tubal ligation was responsible for the problems you claim? Correlation is NOT causation. Since you’ve recommended I do research, despite the fact that I clearly have, do you have any research that supports PTLS?

      • I am 34, no history of early menopause, and never took birth control. I have had 5 children and at the age of 26 I had a tubal ligation. One month prior my sister had the same procedure done and she had no pain. When I had mine I was in excruciating pain. I used all my pain meds up. Over the years since then I have had more and more symptoms come up. Cramping pains are like the beginning to middle pains of labor, I have no sex drive,(before this I always wanted sex), and my legs itch to the point of bleeding. No one in my family has these problems. Mt point is, too many people are reporting these problems. Did u ever stop to think these doctors that perform the tubal lirigations could possibly be in it for the money.

        • Julie Was Here

          Of course doctors work for money. I imagine that you do too, assuming you’re employed. Everyone has to eat.

          Concern over profit is all the more reason to suspect doctors’ motives. Here’s the thing, I don’t know of any doctor who acts like a salesman about tubal ligation (hell, most people have to jump through hoops just to find an doctor who would agree to do it!) except when that doctor is selling reversal. And that’s just the point. There’s no actual evidence linking tubal ligation to so-called “post tubal ligation syndrome.” The only places where I could find support for the existence of the condition is on the websites of doctors who sell reversals, and they offer no evidence.

          Apart from that, all I have are the personal anecdotes of regretted who self-diagnose themselves. Funny, they all seem to be mothers. Often of some high number of kids, too. Just an observation. I’ve never heard of even so much as one single childfree person report any such issues, and I looked. In fact, MOST women, the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of women who have tubal ligations, don’t have any problems afterwards. It’s not as if one woman’s body will work so dramatically different from another’s that severing the fallopian tube would have completely different effects. There’s certainly no practical reason that simply severing the fallopian tubes would cause any issues, as all they do is transport eggs. In a TL, the hormone-producing parts still do their jobs.

          Point is, the diagnosis of laymen is not compelling. My point about the meno symptoms was to demonstrate that the symptoms ascribed to PTLS are common anyway, and so widely varied that different self-diagnosers are make wildly different claims. I guess tubal ligation are an easy thing to blame, doctors are easy people to blame. Meanwhile, the real problems, whatever they might be, go unaddressed. Could be menopause. Could be a complication resulting from pregnancy and birth. Could be a complication from the tubal ligation procedure (in which case the tubal ligation – the severing/blocking of the fallopian tubes was not the cause, so it’s dishonest to ball it post tubal ligation syndrome.) Or it could be any number of things. As long as people keep blaming being sterilized itself, they’ll probably never find out.

          Meanwhile, peer-reviewed scientific studies has blown holes in the supposed link between tubal ligations, and “PTLS,” as I demonstrated in my post. I consider that far more trustworthy.

          Incidentally, I had my tubal at 22. I’ve had no problems so far. I didn’t even need to take a single one of the pain meds that I was prescribed. Sure, the air in my abdomen hurt, but it wasn’t that bad and went away after a few days. I’ve had no problems, post tubal. But then, I already knew that I wouldn’t.

          The long and short of it is, I don’t beleive you. I beleive science.

          Oh, and you might see a doctor, a real one, about your issues.

          • When I say in it for the money, I mean only doing out of greed not for the right reason. No I do not work, my husband does, I am in school full time.
            I didn’t have to jump through any hoop, in fact the 1st doctor I went to agreed to do it. If u are the right age and have had the right amount of children it’s not a hoop jumper to get it done.
            As far as it being easy to get a reversal, I don’t know because I haven’t tried, but I can see why it would be easy. No one has complained about it!!!!
            Evidence? All you have done is read articles, and blogs. How about going through it, like I and others have? These doctors say they have the research but the doctors that do the reversals have very satisfied customers.
            You say it’s women with children only having these problems, I’m not sure about that. Maybe it does have something to do with that and if it is then that means its a combination of the both.
            I never said I knew for sure what my problem is, but you I would not take advice from. You are definitely not God. If you are a scientist, then I definitely would not take your advice. Scientist change their minds constantly. The world of science us everchanging everyday. How many commercials do you see promoting prescription drugs? Then tell me how many commercials you see suing these prescription drug companies?
            All I’m saying is we don’t really know for sure about anything, can we? Don’t be so set minded and stuck in your ways at such a young age, live life, be a little more openeded minded! Don’t have any regrets!! :)

            • Julie Was Here

              “If u are the right age and have had the right amount of children it’s not a hoop jumper to get it done.” And this is decided by someone other than myself, because…?

              Here’s a thought, if the doctors were pushing tubals for money, why would they turn away anyone?

              It’s amazing how I can cite scientific studies, RIGHT IN THE FUCKING BLOG POST ITSELF, but you can pretend that my only research was reading blogs. Willful ignorance, much?

              You’re right, I’m not god. I never claimed to be either, so I don’t know why you think that you’re making some kind of a point here. Funny thing on that note, god isn’t real either.

              Don’t trust science because it changes? So you’re saying that not being closed-minded, but basing your conclusions on evidence and changing your views if evidence compels you to do so is a bad thing? And then you accuse me of not being open-minded?

              Lady, that’s just fucking crazy.

              • It seems I hit a soft spot. They turn them away because it is the law sweet heart in some states and they do not want to be sued later on down the road. I said you also got your information from articles; I did not argue that. What I do know is you do not know for your self if any of it is true, right? There is no way that you can. I am not being close minded, so you say. I just do not trust science as well as you do. I have lived and seen more than your little heart could ever handle.
                You say God is non-existent? How do you know this? Can you prove this? Oh, you articles prove this, I forgot. You might want to actually experience and talk to people, and not make assumptions.

                God bless you sweetie, I really mean that. I hope that your eyes open soon.

                I am sorry if I got you upset, that was not my intention. I did not curse at you. I hope your days are filled with laughter!

              • Julie Was Here

                “Sweet heart”? “Sweetie?” Don’t talk down to me and pretend it’s not your intention to make me upset. “I have lived and seen more than your little heart could ever handle.” As an Iraq war veteran, I call bullshit.

                No, you didn’t hit a soft post, I just can’t take adults seriously when they say they don’t trust science because that’s the same as saying that they don’t trust reality. It was especially annoying that your criticism of science was that it a process that requires an open mind, all the while accusing me of needing to have one myself… because I base my conclusions on scientific study. That just makes no sense.

                Here’s the thing about science, it requires that one must back up what they say. The burden of proof rests upon the person making the positive claim. Much like one claiming the existence of a god must provide empirical evidence to demonstrate this, so would someone claiming that “post tubal ligation syndrome” was a real thing and linked directly to tubal ligations rather than anything else. From what I’ve been able to gather, neither groups has any evidence of their respective claims. That which can be proposed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

                You accuse me of making assumptions as a criticism, yet that’s exactly what you demand that I do by taking both the idea of god and PTLS seriously, not only without evidence, but in the face evidence to the contrary.

                Here’s a thought, apart from the anecdotes of a few women who see fit to diagnose themselves, have you got any solid, empirical evidence linking tubal ligations to the thing you call post tubal ligation syndrome? Some scientific studies, medical research? If you do, I’d love to see it.

                Edit: I can’t believe I forgot to add this, but, no, it’s NOT the law that prevents OBs from doing their job and sterilizing people who ask. Sure, some states, not all, have legal restrictions, but I doubt any of them are an age 40 minimum. No, doctors frequently refuse tubals even when the patients can legally have one. You know why? Because they’re not out for money, they’re out for control.

                You know the doctors that are out for money? The ones that care nothing for scientific study.

              • I made no demands of you to do anything, how can I put demands on someone I do not know. I simply said you should be open minded. As far as the names, that is just the way I talk I am from the south. You have your thoughts and I have mine.
                My feelings are you should only speak from experience. Since you do not know what these women and I are going through then you should not make comments about it.

                Look, love one another is the motto i live by, and even though I do not know you I still love you. Like I said I have lived and I also have been humbled many times in my life. Be quick to listen be slow to speak.:) The older you get the wiser you get. You have to live a long life before you even begin to know what it is about. I do not take advice from very many people at all. If I do it is from an elder in my church whom i see is very wise. She may not be perfect but who is? She has been married for 55 years and is led by God. I know, I know you do not believe in him.

                I do want to tell you a story that happened to me. When I was 2 years old I was in the orange grove with my mom while she was picking the oranges. She came down from the ladder and felt my head; I was running a fever. She rushed me to the hospital and the doctor thought that my appendix were infected so he took them out. mean while fluid was building around my heart. (the doctor was drunk during the operation and used unsterilized tools). My mom knew this because another doctor told her and my father.
                I was then shipped to Gainesville Florida, Shands hospital. There surgery was performed to drain the fluid.The doctors told my mom there was a big chance that I would not make it. My mother was not a christian then, but she prayed and told God that if he saved me she would get saved and got to church. When I came out of surgery I told my mom and dad everything that was going on and I described the entire room to them even the smell. The doctors told my mom that I died for a few moments on the operating table, but my eyes did not open at all.

                I just wanted to share this with you, and hope you live a peaceful loving life and you are happy.:) God bless you

              • Julie Was Here

                1. Ok, you’re talking down to me again. Here’s a newsflash for you: older =/ wiser. Get off your high horse.

                2. I tell you that I require evidence, not subjective anecdotes and what do you give me? A subjective anecdote. What, did you think this one was special?

                3. You did not die. Quit being dramatic. Maybe your heart faltered, but that isn’t what makes one dead. Death means cessation of brain function, which is permanent.

                4. If your mom praying and then you surviving is evidence for your god, the every story of someone surviving after a relative prayed to a different god, or survived after no one prayed at all, or died despite prayer to you god, is evidence against your god.

                5. Thank those money-grubbing, science-trusting doctors you survived. Give credit where it’s due. It was people, it was science that saved you.

              • Of all the things in the human heart, anger can be one of the most intense, destructive, and unhealthy emotions that we can experience. If not handled in the proper way, it can have drastic life-changing consequences. Left unresolved, anger creates an intense desire to destroy something.

                Proverbs 15:18 A hot-tempered man stirs up strife, but he who is slow to anger quiets contention.

                May God be with you my dear. You will need him one day, trust me. I will keep you in my prayers.

    • When I was 22 years old I experienced symptoms identical to yours.

      It was caused by a hormonal issue that I’ve always had but went undetected. Sometimes something can trigger your body to produce more or less of certain hormones. Our cycles are very unpredictable when we are young.
      I’ve had a few surgeries including a laparoscopic procedure which is the same type of surgery a tubal ligation is performed with and was diagnosed with endometriosis at the age of 25.
      I have never had children and I am fully intact.

      So, what caused my period to stop for 3 months? Why did I have hot flashes, nightsweats, and other post menopausal symptoms? Why did my hair fall out?

      I believe it was stress. I had health problems a few months prior which were stress/anxiety related brought on by having to quit my job due to severe insomnia. I can imagine having 4 children by time you’re 25 can screw up the body quite a bit. That’s a lot of hormone changes due to pregnancy.

    • openminded

      Hi Meg, I also had no milk supply and this was for my 5th child, who was conceived after my ligation.

  3. Very nicely written Blog post…
    I do however have to pop on here and give my story…
    I was 25 when I had my tubal ligation/ resection done, after my 4th child was born, and immediately noticed severe issues after. 2 days after surgery,My liver gallbladder and spleen were inflamed, and VERY swollen, I went back to the hospital where I had it done, and had a few follow up tests and everything showed fine except the ultrasounds of the above mentiond organs. Meanwhile, I lost my milk supply (which was never a issue in any other pregnancies, and I had the exact same birth/ epidural etc) and started having super bad anxiety attacks, which I attributed to possible postpartum depression etc… anyway months past, and I start losing my hair and crap… went to the DR and had some tests (hormones, cycle day 3 labs etc) and sure enough my levels were off, especially for being almost 26 at this point.Time went on and I kept having more issues, I stumbled upon PTLS info, and I had almost symptom. I again went back to the DR’s with some of the new info and had more tests to rule out any other causes. My OB disagreed with me but my primary DR was behind me all the way and agreed it could be from the ligation.. We went over possible treatments, but I was unable to use most of them due to family history. As time went on, I researched having a reversal, and just shy of 2 years after my ligation, went and had it reversed. I am now 4 months post reversal and have 90% of the issues I faced after the tubal, with the PTLS are GONE… if there is no such thing? how do you explain life altering symptoms that came on suddenly after the tubal..then suddenly vanish after a reversal? Psychological? I think NOT… My blood tests can even prove it…and my cycles, are back to normal!! and I can prove that too as I have been charting for over 16 months to show the difference in before and after! there may not me that much studies done on PTLS at the moment but that will change soon!
    I really do hope that you do NOT end up with it, and it holds up as a positive form of birth control, I wish I had had it that easy for sure!
    Oh and just to add, my mother had the SAME thing happen and it threw her into early menopause…although then she had NO idea why or what was going on at the time… hindsight is always 20/20…also, it would be good if you went back over some of the studies and really researched them a bit.. I have found them to be a bit misleading when you get down to the fine print…for instance, the “CREST” study was done primarily to study the failure rates of the ligation’s, not side effects, that is not a very accurate study at all, for determine if PTLS exists, though it seems to be the one DR;s claim to quote the most…Just food for thought!
    Have a nice day!

  4. I’m hesitant how to even begin this post, because I am not at all trying to start an argument. I came across your blog while googling ‘post tubal ligation syndrome and reversals’.

    I’ve scanned briefly through your blog before posting this comment, just to try and have an idea of who you are. I’m very much impressed on how well you know yourself, and how well thought out your life decisions seem to be. Of course, I have my story that I just feel like I want to share.I must admit, your post is very impressive. In fact, when I did EXTENSIVE research prior to my tubal ligation in 2009, I came to the same conclusions you have.

    I have two children. Neither was planned. I was 23 when I had my oldest, and 25 with the second. When my second was 5 months old, I had my tubal ligation. I knew when I was pregnant with my second that I didnt want more children after him, but I didnt feel like a tubal ligation was a decision that a pregnant person should make. After I gave birth, the research began, I was assured this tubal ligation would have no effect on me hormonally. I was never on birth control (obviously), never had any previous health issues, and never regreted making the decision to not have any more children. Just a few days shy of my 26th birthday, i had the procedure. It was no big deal. I was back to work in two days.

    The VERY first cycle after my tubal I had really bad acne breakouts, I’ve never had acne, aside from one here and there as as teenager. I was near bleeding to death, with severe cramping. I had assumed this was just going to get better with time. No big deal, nothing I couldn’t live with a few days a month. I’m sure you know how the story will go, time went on, sypmtom after sypmtom was added. The days of feeling crappy just began to increase. In August of this year, almost exactly two years post-tubal, I got really sick, it felt like anxiety, but it consumed me. I was feeling almost out of myself, memory was slipping, tired all the time, severe dizzy spells, headaches. I went to several doctors, had extensive blood work…. they couldn’t find anything, Concidentally, my annual papsmear was due, so I went to my OBGYN. I told her what was going on and she told me she wanted to check my hormone levels. The results were not good, My hormones are totally whacked. Utlrasounds, more tests, etc. Nothing was really diagnosed. I started some natural hormone therapy, it helped a little. I’ve been doing that since.

    I began researching again, and, just like you, cannot find a definative answer on PTLS. But something is going on with me. I dont know how, or why, or how to explain how this would make any sense. Obviously, my hormones are the culprit, but why have they gone haywire, I have no family history of this… the doctors have no explanation. I have a tubal reversal scheduled. I cannot backup my decision with any medical research and I’m coming out of pocket $6,000 for it. Sounds to me like such a stupid decision, I KNOW. But what else do I do. This decision is based soley on women like the one above, who I’ve read about and reached out to. I’m not going to the doctor who is plastered all over the internet. That did creep me out a little. It’s gonna be a really expensvie trial and error for me. In my opinion, if I have the reversal, and go back to normal… well then something was there. Be it, PTLS, or like you said “… could be a complication from the tubal ligation procedure (in which case the tubal ligation – the severing/blocking of the fallopian tubes was not the cause, so it’s dishonest to call it post tubal ligation syndrome)”

    I’m googling these things trying to find someone who says. “i felt (blah blah blah), thought i had PTLS, had a reversal, and still feel like shit”… but I can’t. All of these women have the same life changing ‘experience’ as I, and the reversal magically fixed them.

    I know it is ridiculous, but I would love to hear your thoughts on this…. Do you think it is a ridicoulous leap to spend that kind of money on a surgical procedure that may or may not fix a problem that may or may not exist?

    • Julie Was Here

      Horomone levels can be changed by a lot of things. Going off birth control, damage to the endocrine system, menopause… lots of things. Did the doctor not give you an opinion on the cause?

      Tell you what, when you get that reversal, you come back here and tell me if it helped.

      • I saw two OB’s since all of these issues. I was not on birth control, ever. Initially, they thought Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome. I had to do and insuline resistance test and ultrasound, That was ruled out. Both went on to say how my family history, and my history, do not lead them to believe I would be in early menopause. I asked both about PTLS. One said, no way. One said it’s controversial (obvioulsly). Last visit I had with both of them (seperatly) each just basically looked at my chart, shaking their heads… gave me no answer. just gave me treatment options. That is when I began my reversal research. I found a doctor in my area who does reversals. His staff, and he, say that they’ve seen many of these cases and that the patients report tremendous improvements afterwards. But again, why would they tell me otherwise? I’m giving them $6000. At this point, its a gamble I’m willing to take. If the reversal does not work, then there has got to be something else seriously wrong with me…. and I just don’t know how all of these doctors would be missing it.

        There are so many women who claim to have these things happening to them, which are eerily similar to whats going on with me….but I’m the kinda person who needs to know through my own experience before I can be so sure about something.. I’ll be sure to let you know how it goes.

        I hope all continues to go well with you in regards to your surgery.

        • I had PTLS,for almost 2 years. I went for a reversal in march of this year… I am now 100%(minus normal PMS stuff you get with cycles, and very mild) symptom free. The reversal was 100% worth every penny… I wish I had known what a tubal would have done to me… I had almost every symptom on the list, it was terrible! ( mind you I was off all hormonal birth control 3+years before getting pregnant and having my tubal done, and experienced no ill effects before the tubal was performed, but noted immediate effects/side effects of PTLS after the tubal was done). I even asked the OB who performed it, BEFORE the surgery, if there were any chances it would affect me hormonally… she said NO…I then went back to the same practice a year later and saw a different partner in the practice, complaining of symptoms, and she told me it was “possible”, and to wait another year or so before further testing. I began my research, and got educated on PTLS… I spent months trying herbal remedies etc, but those would still only mask symptoms. I wanted to solve the problem at it’s root…anyway, reversal, totally worth it, and would do it again in a heart beat….I wont sit here and pretend that I know exactly why or how it causes issues in certain women, but I can tell you PTLS is real, and can happen to anyone. There are many things DR’s have yet to learn about the human body, so I am sorry i cannot give you the hypothesis of an amazing scientific break through in fertility, but I can share my personal experience… take it from someone who was skeptical of things like this before hand…it’s not a good thing to make fun of, or de-validate.
          I am sorry for anyone suffering with this horrible problem…

  5. So let me just say that I have not read any other comments,but I did read your article. I cannot speak to you or other peoples experience, but there has been a very real change in my health since I had my tubal 9 years ago, and I am JUST NOW certain it has something to do with my procedure. I had my tubal 6 weeks after having my 3 rd child at age 26. I immediately noticed extremely heavy periods,that I have until this day. I did make that connection between my altered menstrual cycle immediatley, but was told that was normal and to take birth control pills..the reason I got the tubal to begin with was to avoid this. I then began the biggest battle of mylife…a sever ,chronic,debilitating depression, that almost 9 years later I still battle. Dr’ s chalked it up to post pardom and my first script for an antidepressant was written. I now have 3 for depression alone. Dr says its due to stress, so I get one 4 that too. I also have stabbing pain and swelling mid cycle, when I ovulate…since the fist period after tubal.Dr says take motrin… not uncommon( but only after my tubal?).serious stomach issues..Ulcerated stomach…take zantc as needed.I have crazy night sweats…joint pains, Dr says due to meds…although none of mine have that as a side effect. All random symptoms…all ” treated” , none improving.I was perfectly healthy before this surgery, although I could remember how long I’ve felt this bad,I am just realizing that it has been exactly as long as I’ve had my tubal. Then I starting reading about post tubal ligation syndrome.,and I almost cried. A name for my experience. The final thing that convinced me that this was completely real was actually my mom. She had me at 38, youngest of 4.Immediatly got her tubes tied. Began having stomach problems ,that she still has, early menopause, and a hysterectony at 41. I asked when her health symptoms began, and “surprise”…immediatly after her tubal. I’m just here to share my story. Im not against the procedure..Im finished having children,but this is a real condition that can happen, and women should know up front,with a consent disclosure.

    • Julie Was Here

      You had the tubal after having a child? And you’re sure it’s not related to the pregnancy… how?

      Ulcers? The supposed symptoms for PTLS are inconsistent as hell, but that’s a new one.

      Have you had a real diagnosis, or have you just diagnosed yourself based on the stories of others?

      Look, I don’t doubt that you’re going through what you’re going through, I just doubt that it has anything to do with Fallopian tubes being severed. There’s no logical reason that would affect anything, or why it would only affect some women and not others considering that the mechanism is exactly the same. And statistical data doesn’t support PTLS.

      If women should be made to sign consent forms warning against PTLS, PTLS must first be proved to exist and have consistent symptoms and a reasonable correlation between it and tubal ligation. But it just isn’t the case.

      It is my opinion, based on much research, and having a tubal ligation myself, that PTLS just does not make sense. Maybe I’m wrong, but until I see some of the same sort of solid evidence that we would expect for any other condition, I just don’t buy it. Anecdotes from laymen who diagnose themselves, who can’t even agree on what the symptoms are, are not evidence of anything.

      This post had gotten me a lot of criticism, as of late. I never meant for this post to offend anyone. This was the writing of a young woman who was about to undergo a tubal ligation and, before the procedure, was confronted with the concept of PTLS, and had to do research on the subject to see if I might have to reconsider surgery. If there was any merit to PTLS, I sure as hell wanted to know about it! But I found none.

  6. Interesting post! I’d never heard of PTLS. I wonder if there’s also a claim of PVS for men.

  7. I had my tubal when I was 27. I was sore for a couple days, but no issues at all afterwards. It was pretty much a non-thing thing for me. :)

  8. That link you posted about the supposed symptoms of tubal ligation came from a doctor’s office that seems to pride itself on being able to reverse any sterilization method. It just seems sketch to me. I know fr me though, even though I’m fairly sure I’m done having children, the idea that I had surgery to alter my body would freak me out too much So once having another baby becomes out of the question, I’m having essure or something similar done.

    For what it’s worth, my ex roommate had a tubal when she was 30 and now she’s 39 and felt some pain in her abdomen, not bad or anything, but bothersome. I took her to the ER and an ultrasound confirmed that she’d had some kind of recanalization and her tubal might not be as effective. :o

    • Julie Was Here

      The only resource I could find about the symptoms of “post tubal ligation syndrome” was from those sorts of unreliable sites. I could find no information on PTLS from any legitimate medical source. The reason for that is self-evident, I believe.

      I would think that having kids would do a lot more to your body than being sterilized. I was going to get Essure originally, but after looking at it, I decided tubal ligation was better.

      As for your friend, ware her tubes cut, or simply tied or clamped?

  9. HAHAHAHA! All the anecdotal religious mumbo-jumbo from poorly written, moo cows with a bazillion kids and the so called ‘PTLS’ is such horse poop! I had my tubal ligation done with felshie clips and a uterine ablation done in one go, last year when I was 27.

    Other then the few weeks to heal, I never had one problem. In fact having my reproductive freedom in my own hands, so as not to impact the human population is the most freeing experience in my life. (And if I had become pregnant, that parasite would be gone via abortion. My life, my body, my choice and no one else’s.)

    Julie you write solid posts with scientific backing, all these other posts I have read are dumb. It feels like women trying to undermine other women for being cf, atheist, and sterilized.

    • Julie Was Here

      “And if I had become pregnant, that parasite would be gone via abortion. My life, my body, my choice and no one else’s.”


  10. If the doctors who do tubals and the doctors reverse tubals took the time to study the effects on women, clearly we would all have some real answers! That is the problem, no one has studied it because no one cares. A few years ago people were told that fibromyalgia was all in their heads, and nothing could be done about it, however now research is being done and people are getting treated for it! I hope that those that are suffering can find the help they need, and for those that don’t suffer, count yourselves as the lucky ones. peace.

    • Julie Was Here

      Ok, first off, what in the world makes you think that OB/GYNs don’t study the effects of tubals? Really, what? Being actual DOCTORS and all, it’s their JOB to know. If you’re going to accuse them of failing in that respect, you’d better have some evidence in support of your claim. Yeah, actually, tubal ligation is studied. And it’s studied quite a lot. As is sterilization in general, which has lead medical professionals to pioneer new methods. Presently, there are numerous ways to perform tubal ligation, as well as relatively new methods of female sterilization. And you know what? Each and every single method is subject to intense study of all effects, short and long term. Just because the evidence doesn’t support the conclusion that you want does NOT mean that research is not done! If you want to claim to know more than doctors and scientists, then you’d better be one.

      Second, just because X turns out to be true, does not mean that Y is. There was once a time when people dismissed the existence of the platypus as a hoax. However, no one points to the platypus actually being real as an argument in favor of belief in unicorns, declaring that naturalist are lazy for having not found the horned-horses yet.

      As for “PTLS,” there is no definition for PTLS’s symptoms, any and all of which can be found with a plethora of other, unrelated conditions, and little consistency in symptoms by people claiming to have PTLS. You have to define X to give X a name! And as for the people claiming to have PTLS, they’re only diagnosing themselves, which, unless they’re doctors, they have no business doing. I can’t very well diagnose myself with whatever disease I want to just make up, now can I? Certainly, no reputable doctor will diagnose anyone with PTLS, simply as it isn’t a condition granted any legitimacy, for reasons I explain here and in my post (reasons including there being no link between tubal ligation and the supposed syndrome it’s blamed for, no practical mechanism for tubal ligation to have the affect described, scientific research dispelling various PTLS claims, and PTLS just not being a real thing.)

      So, as just one more thing, no, I am NOT “lucky” for having “post tubal ligation syndrome” after having a tubal ligation. I have the expected outcome. Sure, it’s possible to have some side-effects from surgery and anesthesia, but I wouldn’t even be called “lucky” for not having those as they’re not likely. But more than that, I can not be “lucky” for not having something that isn’t even real as far as anyone has been able to work out.

      • Please see below some of the VERY few studies done to actually look at the effect of a tubal NOT just the failure rates which are usually what is studied…

        Home > August 1979 – Volume 54 – Issue 2 > Luteal Deficiency Among Women With Normal Menstrual Cycles,…

        You could be reading the full-text of this article now…

        if you become a society member (I am a society member ) if you become a subscriber (I am a subscriber ) if you purchase this article

        If you have access to this article through your institution, you can view this article in OvidSP.

        Obstetrics & Gynecology: Stage I Adenocarcinoma of the Endometrium: PDF Only

        Luteal Deficiency Among Women With Normal Menstrual Cycles, Requesting Reversal of Tubal Sterilization


        Forty women with normal menstrual cycles who had been sterilized by tubal ligation or electrocoagulation requested tubal reconstruction. As part of their preoperative evaluation, progesterone measurements were obtained in the midluteal phase (5-10 days before the next menstrual period). This group of women had a significantly lower (P < 0.005) mean midluteal progesterone level (9.4 +/- 4.7 ng/ml) than a control group of 24 women with infertile male partners attending the same clinic (17.4 +/- 7.1 ng/ml). In 25 (62%) of the sterilized women, progesterone levels were <= 10 ng/ml, whereas in the control group such low values were found in only 4 (17%) of the women. Thus, reduced midluteal serum progesterone concentration appears more common among women with prior tubal ligation or electrocoagulation than among a control population of apparently normal women.

        (C) 1979 The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists

  11. This also shows that there is been marked change is blood flow to the ovaries and the appearance of PCOS type ovaries after a TL, which can cause of of those symptoms you say do no exist…This is only a SMALL study and there are not many more like it… I have searched high and low and no one has taken on a large study to actually look at EFFECTS instead of failure rates.

    The objectives of this study were to evaluate ovarian sonographic morphology and pelvic blood flow in patients who had undergone bilateral tubal ligation by the Pomeroy technique.

    Twenty women who had undergone bilateral tubal ligation during cesarean section by the Pomeroy techniques were compared to 20 matched controls who had undergone cesarean section alone. Ovarian morphology as well as ovarian and uterine pulsatility index (PI), resistance index and peak systolic velocity were evaluated using transvaginal sonography and Doppler velocimetry.

    Patients post tubal ligation by the Pomeroy technique were found to have a significantly higher rate of polycystic appearance of the ovaries (60% vs. 5%; p < 0.005). Six patients (30%) had post tubal ligation symptoms, as compared to none of the controls. Five of the six symptomatic tubal ligation patients (83%) had ovarian polycystic appearance, which was not significantly different than asymptomatic patients. Ovarian artery PI was significantly higher in symptomatic patients (2.7 ± 1.9) compared to asymptomatic patients (1.5 ± 0.9) (p < 0.05).

    We therefore conclude that patients post bilateral tubal ligation by the Pomeroy technique may acquire an ovarian polycystic appearance and increased ovarian PI, which may be associated with a tendency to develop post tubal ligation symptoms.

  12. Julie Was Here

    Here’s a diagram of of the blood vessels that supply the ovaries. Look at it tell me how severance of the fallopian tubes in any way affects blood supply to the ovaries, which are supplied by the ovarian artery, which, although it’s branches supply the fallopian tubes, doesn’t actually pass through the fallopian tubes itself. Sure, there are some variations in ovarian blood supply, but none of them would be likely to see much of any effect from severed fallopian tubes.

    I also question the legitimacy of your study, at least it’s objectivity, as it presupposes that PTLS is a real thing. Check the last paragraph.

    Also note that this study found no link between tubal ligation and menstrual abnormality.

  13. My point was more research on PTLS is needed, so we have answers, not “opinions” on a syndrome you so strongly suggest via insulting posts is not real.
    My second point is if u or anyone else reading theses posts suffer from the symptoms, I am sorry, because suffering SUCKS. and if u don’t have symptoms, I envy you, because again, suffering SUCKS.

    If anyone is thinking of pulling out all their girly parts please go to: hersfoundation (link altered by juliewashere88 because I don’t like to give traffic to blatantly dishonest websites) they have a ton of information on a 17billion dollar a year “industry”. And a document on PTLS under medical journal articles that I have NOT ordered or read. Thanks M for the links you provided.

    • Julie Was Here

      “My point was more research on PTLS is needed, so we have answers, not “opinions”….”
      And my point is that research HAS been done, it just doesn’t support your opinion so you’re ignoring it and accusing anyone who points this research out as “insulting.” There have been over 200 studies, just that I know of, on PTLS. The few that lent it any credibility did not have the merit to survive in peer review.
      Perhaps you’re not familiar with how academic and scientific research is done, or how medical studies are conducted, but they cost a lot of time and money. Why would people continue to look into a matter that’s already been thoroughly investigated and subsequently dismissed simply because you haven’t gotten the results that you wanted? You want more research on the matter? Do it and fund it. But when you do, keep your bias out of it.

      Speaking of letting your personal biases lead to complete intellectual dishonesty, tubal ligation is NOT the same a hysterectomy and certainly does NOT involve anyone “pulling out all their girly parts” (“girly parts”? What are you, two?)Moreover, it is just as monumentally absurd to conflate the two completely different procedures as it is to pretend that providing either warrants use of the word “industry” (what, is there a pap-smear industry too?)
      Never mind the fact that doctors are as resistant to providing hysterectomies as they are tubal ligation, even to women suffering from endometriosis, for no other reason than because of the sexist assumption that women MUST have babies. Funny, you’d think a 17billion dollar (what a complete bullshit number, by the way) a year “industry” would be more apt to sell their product.

      By the way, I’m deleting the link to hersfoundation that you provided (of course, anyone can still google it.) Anyone who wants to know about the medically and scientifically dishonest, fear-mongering website can read this: An Open Letter to the HERS Foundation on the Anniversary of my Hysterectomy.

      • wow… you are a catty, sarcastic, snotty little twit aren’t you… Mommy must be so proud…
        :::eye roll:::
        I have a strong feeling you carry this ” I am ALWAYS right” chip on your shoulder everywhere you go…. Carry on then… I am out… No sense continuing to go back and forth with someone who cannot tactfully discuss something…

        • Julie Was Here

          I make points and back them up with evidence, which you fail to refute. Meanwhile, you carry on not only ignoring evidence, logic, and everything that I say, all while mindlessly promoting your preconceived notion which you fail to back up in any way at all. (Well, you did cite a study that was done wrong with too small a control group, a control group that made no sense, and a conclusion that is debunked by a basic understanding of anatomy, in a study that it itself refuted by an overwhelming number of contrary and properly conducted studies.) To call this a discussion would mean giving you a generous amount of credit. I am talking to a wall.

          And as as for the “I’m always right” chip, don’t project your faults on to me. You’re the one who has the weight of empirical evidence against you and still won’t admit wrong.

          And what’s more, you not only carry on in the intellectually dishonest way described, but now you’ve actually resorted to petty name calling while accusing me of being the one lacking in tact. That would be funny if it weren’t so pathetic.

  14. patty clark

    I don’t know how old your blog is but I’m soooo curious to know how did you do after the tubal ligation. Are you experiencing any PTLS symtoms or are you the same old you?

    • Julie Was Here

      Ptls symptoms? Sure, I have a few ptls symptoms. So does my pregnant sister. So does my boyfriend. So do you, I bet.

      Ptls is not real and so has no symptoms. Anyone determined to declare themselves to have Ptls will call any discomfort, any health issue, a Ptls symptom. When anyone can be bothered to define a list of Ptls symptoms, they’re so broad and varied between person to person, and so common with other conditions, that it’s frankly absurd that anyone can even call Ptls a syndrome at all.

      Simply the only changes that I’ve experienced since my tubal have been from getting rid of my iud, and those changes have been for the better.

      • Thank you! I’m getting my tubal done next week. I’m curious to know how many people who are suffering had their tubals after child birth. I do not see many posts by people who have never had children and are having problems after their tubal. This makes me very curious. I have never had children or had any desire to have them, and would like to hear from that group of people who have had a tubal and the after effects.

        That being said, I have been suffering from many of the these symptoms after having my mirena iud put in, and many before I had it put in at 40. I had it for almost two years and it made me “more” nuts. I didn’t stop bleeding for over 3 months and only did with the help of extra progesterone. I rarely stopped spotting, cried for no reason in the middle of the day at work, constant pain in my abdomen and finally called it quits and had it yanked out two months ago. Before I had it put in I was already dealing with heart racing and restless leg syndrome so I can’t attribute all my craziness to it.

        I want to get the tubal done to get off all the hormones and figure out what stage my body is actually at. All the Ptls talk freaked me out a little, but I figure that I won’t feel any worse than I already have been. I’m not looking forward to the long heavy periods though which I’m sure will happen since I am now 41 and have been on hormones.since I was 17.

        So long story short. I’m excited to be getting the tubal done – they will be cutting, cauterizing and tying. I would still like to here the stories of the non-childbearing group that have had tubals done.

  15. I am so confused by all of this really. I am going for my first appointment for my tubal ligation next month. I have two children and am 25. I had difficult pregnancies, births and a general dislike of the whole “baby” thing. Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE my kids, but I don’t see why anyone would want to have more and more screaming little things that are stuck on your tit 24/7 totally dependent on you. I breast fed both of mine for at least a year, stayed at home with them, did what I was “supposed” to do. I am happy with my family, and do not see the need to introduce another member that will take my time away yet again. I am currently pregnant and my abortion is tomorrow. Sorry if this offends anyone, but we cannot afford another child. Really I don’t want to be pregnant again. If I seriously want a child in a few years (which I HIGHLY doubt) I would adopt and love that child like my own. There are so many older children in need of homes. I experienced the “mommy” thing. It’s great I wouldn’t change it for the world. All my friends, who are single unmarried and don’t have children seem to think I am nuts for having my tubes done. I don’t see them paying for my babysitter so I don’t see how they volunteer their opinion. A lot of people in this world seem to have opinions that they choose to spew and force on others. I think everyone has a right to live their life their way, because they alone must live with the consequences.
    Going back to the tubal thing, I am a little scared because I have been reading an over-whelming amount of “personal experiences” that show there are side effects, and debilitating ones at that. I would not want to have these things happen to me. Then again I have a high pain tolerance, train and fight in muay thai and find most women these days are plain sissies. Raised in Israel I have seen my share of pain of war, growing up downtown Toronto as an abandoned teen has made me tough. I have Rheumatoid Arthritis and suffer from chronic pain anyways, and continue with my life choosing to ignore it. I was fortunate to breast feed for a year and a half after my second child which prevented me from getting pregnant, but as soon as I stopped, BAM pregnant. I immediately had an abortion. Now I’m having another one. It’s a shame really because prior to my second child (an oops child) I had tried Mirena (bled for 6 months) and numerous contraceptives all with horrible side effects (which are pretty friggin close to this supposed syndrome). I also had a tubal pregnancy which ended in a 4 month along miscarriage in the middle of a construction site, while cutting a piece of wood. Really after everything I had gone through with the abortions, miscarriage and horrible fear of having more screaming babies to deal with (my two kids are throwing a tantrum as I type this…WHY THE FUCK have more???) I will take anything that the tubal will bring. Seriously, it can’t be any worse. I wish people would stop writing these exaggerated posts because now I’m scared shitless of something I deem necessary. Call me crazy I think there is enough people on this over-populated planet and there is no need to breed. How do you not feel “complete” after one or two children? You should feel complete no matter how many children you do or don’t have. In my native country it is normal for people to have 10 kids. All I ask is WHY??? Why should I be forced into this mommyhood for life? Is it so terrible I want my kids to hurry up and go to school so I can get my life back? So I can shower without being interrupted, so I can get back to work without giving my entire salary to childcare? It’s like I’m satan for not wanting anymore kids, and supposedly “killing” any pregnancies I’ve had since. Why would I lower the quality of life of my existing children to have more that I know I am not prepared for? Thank you Julie for making me feel a little better about my decision, as I have been on the internet for hours, literally freaked out thinking of not getting my tubes done in fear of this “syndrome”. I’ll keep a positive attitude about this procedure, and I probably won’t suffer from anything. The brain is a powerful thing, and I’m sure a lot of these women are subconsciously regretting they’re decision. At least I hope so….

    • Julie Was Here

      First off, NEVER apologize for having an abortion. There is NOTHING wrong with having an abortion, no matter what your reason. You are doing what’s best for you and your family, and if anyone is offended by you standing up for yourself as a person and not merely a person-factory, they can fuck off. The same goes for having a tubal.

      Here’s the thing about personal experiences, they don’t mean shit. Women who regret having tubals will blame their tubals every time they so much as her the sniffles. Generally, these women will be the only ones to write about their tubals and have their stories posted on the website of doctors who profit from reversal.

      But the Fallopian tubes have nothing to do with hormone production or transference, nor do they have anything to do with blood flow. There is no reason a tubal would harm anyone, unless an ovary is accidentally damaged in the procedure. And if that’s the case, a tubal reversal wouldn’t fix it as these women claim. What’s really happening is these women are going off birth control, and then going back on, among other things. Talk to your doctor.

      The majority of tubal stories are ones you’ll never read. Few people tell their stories when everything is perfectly fine. That’s why I told mine and am collecting the stories of other women to share. These irresponsible doctors who market medical myths to sell tubal reversals do a lot of damage to web with their lies, convincing women who have has tubals that ever ailment they might have is due to the tubal, and scaring women out of tubals.

      There is nothing to be afraid of. Nothing. I has my tubal back in July and I’ve never felt healthier in my life. If you’re sure you want a tubal, get one. Don’t let anyone talk you out of it. Very, very few people ever regret being sterilized, despite “what if you change your mind?” invalidations.

      Oh, and as for overpopulation, you’re absolutely right. Good on you for speaking up.

  16. patty clark

    Julie I agree with you in that there is so much more that we as a society need to learn about how the female body works. There is definetly a lack of studies that need to be done in order to understand and legitimize a condition like PTLS.
    But I disagree with you when you say it does not exist. Yes, it exists. There are just too many women complaining about it. And simply put, it is a perception that some women experience as an agravation of PMS symptoms, and menstrual symptoms, and pre menopausal symptoms. (You can look up to those symptoms on wikipedia, they are too long to post). And other symptoms inmediately after undergoing a tubal ligation surgery.

    Not long ago (80′s if I’m not mistaken) woman complained about PMS and were told by medical doctors that “it was all in their heads”. As for now, it is widely accepted that it exists, and not only that, there are treatments and all to help those who suffer it, due to its incapacitating phisical, and emotional symptoms.
    Not all women suffer PMS, and not all suffer to the same degree, not all suffer the same symptmons, and no, it is still not understood completely after years of studies, that have found some, but not all the facts.
    Doctors need to be more compasionate with woman and not tell them is all in their heads, they need to find out and rule out other possible illnesses before sending women home.

    Pain is a matter of perception, some people have a small or big pain threshold, and what could be an excruciating menstrual cramp for me, it might not be so for you. It is hard to measure. But when most of your life you used 4 tampons a day and right after the TL you are using 12 or more… this is measurable and should be investigated.

    Anyways, just my two cents for you. And I was also curious on the nice drawings you posted from the irrigation system of the uterus/falopian tubes/ovaries. How about the innervation (nerves)? I would be far more concerned about the disection of nerves in the process of the surgery than the blood supply.
    Best wishes!

    • Julie Was Here

      There have been studies on PTLS. They all proved it fictional. It’s a made – up condition invented by regretful women out to blame their tubals and greedy doctors out to profit from reversals.

      Plenty of people claim to have encountered ghosts too. Hell, I was briefly convinced that I’d even had a conversation with one once. That doesn’t make it real.

      The weight of scientific evidence as well as basic knowledge of how the female repo ductile system works is against PTLS. Yes, some things really are just made up.

  17. patty clark

    There are new discoveries made everyday by scientist, and there is so much more to learn. I bet you you’ll live long enough to see that PTLS will be a recognized entitiy just like it is PMS, by the medical comunity.
    Maybe the pharmaceutical companies will see that it is to their benefit to sponsor the studies to prove how the TL meses up the hormonal system of some women. So more women will decide not to have the tubal, and spend their money on contraceptive products. It will happen, you’ll see.

    • Julie Was Here

      You are assuming a conclusion not only in the absence of supporting evidence, but also in the face of strong evidence to the contrary. That is intellectually dishonest and irresponsible. You should be ashamed of blind, baseless faith. Do you have any idea what harm you cause to people who don’t know better by perpetuating this myth?

      It’s not uncommon for antis to tell a similar lie, that abortion causes breast cancer. It doesn’t, and theres a wealth of evidence to prove it. Meanwhile, the antis haven’t got a shred. Yet antis perpetuate the myth because they don’t like abortion and want to scare women out of it.

      • patty clark

        Faith is the escence of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen! By definition. And nobody should be ashamed to have faith.
        I don’t think I’m dishonest by hoping for cience to confirrm the link between TL and the suffering of many women, so they can find relief. I think is dishonest to deny their suffering and their right to speak up. You want to silence them for whatever reasons. Just let women know before they have a TL that they might suffer PTLS, if they decide to take the risk then so be it. But it is dishonest if doctors let you know about it after you already done it.
        I actually applaud your unintended pro life choice and I hope it goes viral!. Let me explain: If people who do not intend to have babies all had a Tubal, there would be no need for abortions! They could go ahead and fool around all they wanted without unwanted pregnancies ( STD’s is another story).
        Although, Tubals are not 100% effective, 1 in a 100 fail ( higest rate the younger you are). And that’s a problem. You might want your partner to get a vasectomy too. ( Have you heared about post vasectomy syndrome?). Just to make sure.

        I think you’re great Julie, you’re unique, one of a kind. Makes me think that at some point you were just a speck in your mother’s womb, with the genetic material needed to make you. Thank God your mother decided to let you be there until you were born, and then cared for you until you grew up to be who you are.
        Hope not to get you all defensive. I pretty much have an idea what your response to this is going to be…don’t bother insulting me. Peace to you! Adios!

        • Julie Was Here

          Faith is irrational belief in the absence of evidence, and even in the face of conflicting evidence. It’s a delusion that keeps people believing in ghosts and gods. It’s a disease of the mind, and one that has always kept humanity from finding real answers to questions and problems.

          You keep assuming ptls without any reason to do so besides what you want to be true. That’s not reasonable in any way. It’s counter productive. And if any women who have nonsensically diagnosed themselves with ptls really are suffering, your mindless faith in ptls will keep them from finding the real problem and the real cure.

          And what’s more, you want doctors to lie to women getting tubals, women who are no doubt already nervous about surgery, just to validate your bullshit. That is SICK! What other lies should doctors have to tell trusting patients just to make you feel better?

          Yes, I’ve head of “post vasectomy syndrome,” another shameful myth. Do you believe in Santa too?

          Oh, I see, you’re one of those pro-liars. No wonder you don’t care about women, reproductive health, science, medicine, or truth.

          Actually, I was never a speck in my mother’s womb just like you were never a speck in your father’s balls. I am, by definition, a sentient being. Without that, there I no “me” to be anything at all.

          And no, I’m not about to thank your imaginary friend for a damned thing. Hell, I won’t even thank my mom for HER CHOICE. No one is done any favors by being forced into existence. In fact, breeding more into an overpopulated world is downright irresponsible and selfish. I don’t thank anyone for it.

          • patty clark

            Julie, with all due respect, I was not a speck in my father’s balls. It took for him to “spit” a gazillion microscopic tadpoles into my mom’s womb, and from all those only one joined my mom’s egg and fertilized it, and then yes, I started as a speck then in her womb, and so did you. Had it been another egg or another spermatozoid, it would not be me, but someone else totally different. (What are the chances?)
            Think about that cigote, a cell that has all the info to make YOU! And has the capability to change the woman’s phisiology to make it possible. Pretty mind blowing, think about things you don’t “see” but do exist!
            I think you should thank your mother for not aborting you. Heck, I’ll call my mom and thank her for not aborting me, and for not dumping me in the trash and walking away after I was born!

            • patty clark

              I meant to write zygote, not cigote

            • Julie Was Here

              A zygote isn’t a person, and it’s monumentally stupid to pretend that it is. A zygote has no more “information” than any other cell in your body, which a whole new person could be cloned from. But I doubt that you pretend to be millions of people for this reason.

              A person is a mind, a sentient, sapient being. Without that, there is no you and no me.

              Why should I thank someone for forcing me into existence, especially a doomed existence that everyone suffers and dies because of? To give both is a selfish action, and one that does no favors to the new person existence is imposed upon. I’m done no favors by it. I didn’t ask to exist. It’s not like I would know the difference if I never existed.

              That would be the effect of my mother having an abortion – I would have simply never existed. At such a time, there was no me to be affected. It would have been impossible to abort me. What is aborted would have been the pregnancy that eventually resulted in my existence. My mother having an abortion would have been no different from her not having sex.

              Do you thank your dad for not getting a blow job or anal? Do you curse your parents for every missed pregnancy opportunity, all your brothers and sisters who could have existed?

  18. patty clark

    It took you a while to come back.
    Julie, even if you cloned yourself that clon would not be you!
    There is no other way you would be here on earth writing your witty ideas if that especial cell called a zygote would not have been allowed to develop.
    I doubt a born baby has any conscience of existing than one that has not been born yet. That does not justify destroying it because of someonelse’s inconvenience.
    Why you cannot thank the person that brought you to this world escapes my comprehension, especially considering that it would have been okay with you if for her convenience she would just destroyed you, when you were not able to defend yourself.
    Let me ask you something, do you celebrate your birthdays? I don’t imagine you go “Shit!, not another one! I so hoped to be dead by now!….oh man, maybe next year”
    You know what, I bet your mom is your fan numer one and she reads your blog, so I’ll thank her for not killing you when she could: Thank you Julie’s mom for not aborting her, I think she’s a great writer, and no one in the world is able to do what she does, the way she does it. She is unique and you let her live.
    I don’t think there’s anything else to say on my part, I understand your ideas although I don’t share them. Nothing wrong with that. Sayonara!

    • patty clark

      And I do thank my parents for not aborting any of my brothers or sister. My oldest brother was unplanned, so I thank my mom for doing the right thing (though not the easiest thing). I also thank my MIL for not aborting my husband, unplanned also.
      Would you look at that, I did have more to say!

    • Julie Was Here

      1. Again, I can’t be destroyed when there is no me. I can not be killed at a time before my own existence. Do you have any idea how insane you look for continuing to demand otherwise?
      2. NO abortion is “convenient.” You’re either a terrible misogynist or woefully ignorant. I’m not sure which is worse.
      3. A “born baby” is the only kind there is. And yes, they ARE conscious. More importantly, as they aren’t inside anybody. There is no body to remove them from. Or do you intentionally ignore the FACT that abortion is about a woman’s body?
      4. Just because I, as an actual person who now exists, prefers being alive to being dead does NOT mean that being forced into existence is better than simply never existing in the first place.

      Your ideas are anti-woman and anti-human and there is a lot wrong with that.

      • patty clark

        Julie, you are the one not making any sense at all, for real, take a step back and think hard on what makes you think like that, you are really messed up and really “doomed” , and I say it with a sad heart. I was hoping to break into your stony heart some sense.
        Life doesn’t make any sense without God, does it? (Not any god, but the real God, the God of the Bible). I know you don’t believe in him, I know you believe you descend from the monkeys, and you believe the bing bang theory, which to believe in that requires more faith than believing in God, for you have no scientific evidence backing up all that boloney. Study it a little when you have time. And evidence of God is everyWhere. The earth is filled with his glory.
        I enjoy a good debate but all things must come to an end. I can’t continue with this due to time, and frankly makes me sad to see what is in your heart.
        I hope someday you experience God in a personal and deep way, that would change you forr ever. Julie, Jesus said I am the way, the truth, and the life and no one comes to the Father except through me. Let him in your heart. You still can. Go to him when you get tired of living like that

        • Julie Was Here

          I have a stony heart? Why? Because I’m free of the delusion that traps you? I can’t help but find It ironic that you would accuse my “heart” of fault considering how your anti-abortion position gets 67-68 THOUSAND women killed every year. How does your conscience deal with that? Do you ever think about your victims? Are you ever haunted by their screams?

          I see you don’t understand how science works.. I suppose this would explain your certainty that PTLS is a reality, despite lack of evidence on your part, and plenty of evidence against it on mine, and your complete inability to argue anything based on merit rather than appeal to what you simply wish to be true. Unlike religion and other delusions, science bases all conclusions on falsifiable evidence and subjects itself to the scrutiny of peer-review. All conclusions must stand on their merits or be discarded. Not only does science not require faith, it does not allow it. There is strong evidence for the fact of evolution as well as the “big bang,” and none against either. If you could be bothered to do honest research, if you could be bothered to put down your scientifically and historically impossible Bible and actually pick up some non-fiction, you would know this.

          But there is no evidence for god, your particular version or any other. And there never has been, despite desperate apologetics. Nothing about life on this planet or the universe as a whole makes any sense with the invocation of fanciful, supernatural beings. God didn’t make man, we made god in our own imaginations.
          Don’t kid yourself. This isn’t a debate. You brought nothing of merit to the discussion, just your own biases and delusions.

          I hope some day you experience enlightenment and honesty, knowledge and rationality. Reality is better than myth, any day. It’s sad and pathetic that otherwise intelligent people still cling to their senseless and primitive religious beliefs, and even worse, use their religion as an excuse to justify their bigotry and general inhumanity. It’s sick. It’s sad. And it makes me weep for the human race which should be above such nonsense. I wish you could wake up. I wish you could grow up. I wish you could unshackle yourself from Plato’s Cave and see the beautiful truth of the real world. I wish that doing so could finally allow you to let go of your hateful view of women. You and the world would benefit greatly if you would only realize that you were trapped in your ignorance, and you hold the key to free yourself and to find knowledge, and that key is rationalism.

  19. patty clark

    Julie, I wasn’t going to read what your answer was. But, hey, I’m a curious person. I must confess you have softened up your tone a lot! Looks like you didn’t researched info about evolution and the such. And I just wanted to throw a couple of ideas at you, so you don’t stay with what you heared from your 5th grade teacher, since it seems you like research and evidence.
    * So let’s suppose for a moment BingBang the world is done. Then evolution says that from the first cell (amoeba?) all the other more complicated forms of life evolved. But for that 1st life to be, they need to use “unknown” substances, that reacted in an unknown way, during an unknown period of time. That is not demonstrable and repeatable, and requires a lot of imagination and “faith”. Not science at all.
    * It is said that the probability of the human gene to be created by chance is the same as the probability of a tornado to pass by a scrapyard and expect a boing 767 airplane to come out of that.
    When you see a sculpture of Michaelangelo, you don’t say : Oh, it must have taken a million years, a few explosions, and some random reactions to create this!. No. When there is a creation, there must be a creator.
    The world is full of creations, that have beauty, order, purpose, working magnificently without flaws. Too good to believe it was created by chance. There is a creator more crafty, more smart, more powerful, who created this world, and created YOU, to enjoy him forever, if you give him the chance.
    I didn’t make this info up, it’s said by scientist, and there is more. Look for yourself, look with eyes and heart wide open. Be curious!

    • Patty, you’re hilarious! You’ve been making a ton of logical fallacies on this page, but this last one is called The God of the Gaps, which is a variation on the logical fallacy of Argument From Ignorance. Again, hilarious!

      Also, the first cell is not an amoeba. And the fact that we can’t recreate the Big Bang doesn’t mean we can’t make scientific assertions about how it happened. Just like we can’t put a plane that crashed back together, nor recreate its crash, but we can determine how the plane looked, and what circumstances caused it to crash.

    • Julie Was Here

      Holy shit, lady. I can’t believe that you can, with a presumably straight face, accuse me of not doing my research, and then you turn right around and demonstrate that you know even less than a quick browse through wikipeida could tell you.

      1. The big bang theory and evolution have absolutely jack shit to do with each-other, apart from being demonstrably scientifically and historically verifiable. The big bang theory (which, by the way, was not a literal explosion) is the basis of cosmology, while evolution is the basis of biology. They aren’t the same. They’re not even related.

      2. Just because you’re too lazy to do enough research to understand the basic concepts of abiogenisis does not mean that it’s a complete unknown. Don’t assume that everyone shares your proud ignorance. Evolution doesn’t actually say anything about where ANY life came from. It’s a theory that exists to explain the diversity of life, not the origin of it. That is the job of abiogenisis, which may have similarities to evolution, but isn’t the same thing. Neither field of study says any such nonsense that all life derived from amoebas. That is nonsense!

      3. Fortunately, neither the genes of humans, nor of any other species, are actually brought into existence by chance. Chance has nothing to do with evolution at all. Evolution serves to explain how seemingly complex organisms can arise without the involvement of chance. Simply, genes which are beneficial for an organism in a given environment will be the one’s most likely to be successful in the population. Organisms reproduce with variation. Gradually, these genes are built upon, the population becoming so distinct from the population that spawned it that they can no longer interbreed successfully – a new species.

      4. Sculptures do not have genes, nor the ability to reproduce with variation. You’re comparing inanimate objects with organic life forms, as if both need to be created and that is just plain STUPID!

      5. Actually, “beauty” is entirely subjective and ins’t an inherent quality in anything, and there is no order or inherent purpose to anything, in this non-created world which is full of flaws, which you would see if you’d only stop wallowing in your delusions.

      6. You have absolutely no evidence for a creator, let alone any particular one. You are using your imaginary friend as a band-aid so you don’t have to act like a fucking adult and you some honest research for once in your life and look for real answers.

      But sure, I’ll play along for just a minute. Suppose your one true santa really did make everything. Who made him?

    • Julie Was Here

      OK, I calmed down a bit. Sorry, I get a headache when I see such proud ignorance. I’m going to try to be nice now.

      Here, I found a series of videos that explain the basics of the basics Barney-style. It will never replace an actual scientific education on the subjects, of course, but it will at least correct your misconceptions and special pleading.

      If you want to keep talking to me about science, then at least have a very, very, very basic understanding of what you’re talking about. Watch these videos and THEN come back.

  20. Patty Clark.

    Looks like you’ve fallen for the daft idea that repeating that infantile nonsense is going to make people think your ignorant superstition trumps science and learning and that somehow you know better than people who have bothered to learn the facts and who spend their lives researching it.

    It isn’t working, I’m afraid. It’s just making you look ignorant and superstitious. Do you remember who fooled you with it? Did you give them any money?

    If you had the courage, you could read the real science from masses of on-line sources with a quick search on Google, or in books which you can buy from any decent book shop. Give it a try and come back if there is anything you get stuck with.

    You could do worse than reading this, if your faith is strong enough to risk it: So You Think You Don’t Believe In Evolution

  21. It is only 10 days until my tubal ligation and I am still felling very strongly about my decision. I have tried other methods of birth control such as the pill (which I ALWAYS forget) and “the shot” which has cause numerous side effects. I am a single 29 years old returning college student/mother of a 3 year old son that has recently been diagnosed with autism. Our days are racked full of work, appointments, tantrums, school tasks, therapy sessions, hugs, kisses and tears and after a much debated abortion one year ago I have made the finally decision that I do not want any more children. PERIOD. I am extremely happy with my choice but after some research I am concerned about the recovery. I am having my surgery on a Friday morning and have taken time off from work until that following Tue. (4 days of recovery) Will that be enough time? My son will be staying with family for that weekend but will return on Monday. By then will I be able to properly care for him on my own? Also I am a sucker for pain – do you have any at home advice for the recovery period – medication to take? Heat pad? ETC…
    Thank you in advance for any guidance.
    Have a great day!

    • Julie Was Here

      Congrats on getting your tubal scheduled, and seeing past all this anti-sterilization bullshit.

      Your story sounds very similar to a friend of mine. She has a son who just turned 6 who has autism, and she also had an abortion a few years ago which she spoke publicly about so as to help destigmatize the procedure (there is NOTHING wrong with having an abortion, and don’t ever let anyone tell you otherwise.) If I remember right, she wants to get a hysterectomy but has so far been unable to do so.

      As for recovery time, that varies from person to person, as well as the specifics of the procedure. I can only speak for myself. For me, I was released from the hospital a few hours after surgery, then came home to sleep off the anesthesia. Before the day was out, I was out and about shopping and attending to various errands with my boyfriend. It’s not like I was bound to bed, I just wasn’t going on any hikes.

      My incisions were small and never hurt. At worst, they itched a bit once they scabbed over. The incisions were raised for a while, but eventually flattened out. Now my scars are so small and so faint one would have to be looking for them to find them.

      For the fist few days, my only problem was the air that was left in my abdomen. If I shifted from sitting to laying too quickly, the air would shift suddenly which does NOT feel nice. It wasn’t unbearable though. I never even too the Vicodin that I was prescribed. Apart from that, the pressure caused by the bubble made me run out of breath easily. It took about a week for my body to absorb all the air, and after that I was fine.

      It’s definitely good to have a few days off work and have your kid staying somewhere else while you recover. It’s not that you wouldn’t be able to take care of your kid, it’s that you shouldn’t have to worry about it for a bit. The more time you spend relaxing, the better you’ll feel and you deserve that.

      As for pain, like I said, the only problem that I had is the air. Just sit up and lay down very, very slowly. A heat pad might help if you experience cramping, but I didn’t have any. You might have a sore throat for a day or two because of the tube they place, you can just treat that as normal (make sure you drink plenty of fluids!) Similarly, you might feel sore when you urinate as you’re likely to be given a catheter; I’m not sure that there’s much you can do about that. Your doctor will probable prescribe Vicodin or something similar, but I didn’t really need anything that strong and stuck with Motrin. If you think you might need Vicodin, you might want to also as your doctor for ZoFran if opioids make you nauseous (strong pain meds make me sick.)

      I wrote about my tubal ligation procedure on this page, which you might find helpful.

      I sincerely hope this helps, and if you have any more questions, please do ask.

  22. I have a friend who had her tubes tied and is now suffering with heavy never ending periods, weight gain, severe anemia etc. her hormones are now all messed up.

    I happen to also be a medical device sales rep that works for the largest women’s health co out there. With many of these procedures the docs make money off the volume of procedures they do…if there is a capital and disposable component…they will get a better discount on supplies per procedure based off volume. I’m not saying all docs are shady…but there is some truth to some of the prior references to motivations.

    Lastly, holy shit…I know I see life sooooo differently at 35 than I did at 22. I would like to tt to u in 10, 20, & 30 yrs & see if you have any regrets at that time. Jut saying you had choices like Mirena…an IUD that lasts 5 years at a clip. Anyway…I hope all works out well for you.

    Don’t always believe the scientific ” published data” you read…and don’t be so quick to dismiss claims that patients have

    • Julie Was Here

      I am quite quick to dismiss the scientific and medical diagnosis and scientific analysis of lay people in favor of actual scientists and actual doctors, you know, people who actually know what they’re talking about.
      2. You want to know what makes money for doctors? Delivering babies. If doctors are really motivated by money, they wouldn’t provide tubals for anyone. And actually, that’s very close to reality as tubal ligations are very difficult for anyone under 35 with less than three children to get. And you know what else makes money for doctors? Performing tubal reversals, which they often do by spreading and perpetuating the medical myth of PTLS.
      3. Symptoms like those you describe by your friend are easily explained by going off hormonal birth control, as well as a number of other things. I actually had exactly the same sort of thing happen to me YEARS before I had my tubal. Correlation =/ causation.
      4. Don’t think for one moment that I’m going to stand here and let you talk down to me unchallenged. For one thing, there are many childfree people of ALL AGES. Yes, even happy old people without a single regret in the world. You know what people are, statistically, more likely to regret? Having kids. Funny, if I was trying to have kids at 22, you probably wouldn’t go one with your ‘I’m older than you, therefore I know better that you for your own life” attitude. But hey, thanks for the totally not asked for advice and condescension, random stranger on the internet.
      See, now the problem with Joe Shmoe jumping in a doctor’s coat and making medical recommendations is that you haven’t read my file. I already HAD a Mirena. I only got it because the OBGYN made me a deal, telling me he’d give me the tubal I wanted if I tried the IUD for 6 months. (I don’t doubt that that the large Mirena poster in his office had something to do with it. Where’s the money again?) I did. The pain was horrific, as were the periods, which are known, proven side-effects of the Mirena device (and it all went away when I had it removed and got my tubal. ) And why should I endure that, and pay for it again every 5 years until menopause when I can just have tubal and be done with it?
      Stick with science and mind your own uterus.

      • I feel the need to jump in the discussion about choosing not to have children. I feel some people just aren’t born with the need/desire to have children. I am one of them. My mother said that as a child I always said if I decide to have children I would adopt. Then I discovered that I do not have the mothering gene in me…..unless it’s an animal…they don’t talk back…often. Of course my mother also cursed me with “you are going to have twin red-headed boys who act just like you did”. That right there would have stopped me. I never want to raise myself. My parents did an awesome job cuz I was not easy.

        I’ve had people tell me I’m selfish for not wanting to have children. My answer to them is people who have children who don’t want them are the selfish ones. We have a choice in life. Your child doesn’t. They didn’t ask to be born. It is no fun growing up in a home where you were not wanted.

        It also took many many MANY years to convince my in-laws that I didn’t want children. If I had to hear about my biological clock one more time, I was going to lose it. I’m now almost 42 and sorry my biological clock never went off.

        Thank you for showing me that there are other people out there like me!

  23. I know this is an old post, but I had a tubal and I’m fine. I was googling information about ovaries and found a link to PTLS. I found this post, among other links about the “syndrome” and… well, I had mine done after my pregnancy and it was rough.

    Not because of the tubal though, pregnancy jacks you up. Plus, I’m getting older, I have kids now, I’m under more stress, the PTLS list is so all-encompassing that I have lots of those symptoms right now. Many of them are the same as normal hormone changes/effects post-pregnancy or even just good old fashioned stress.

    So, if you’re like me and googled up PTLS and found this entry. Here’s my subjective anecdote: I had a tubal ligation and I am fine. (The only thing I wonder now, did they clamp and block, or severe and seal? What happened to my tubes?)

    P.S. Also, one name showed up a lot when I looked up this syndrome and it’s the name of a doctor who runs a tubal reversal clinic. Just sayin’.

    • Julie Was Here

      Thanks for your post. More people need to speak up.

      Not long ago, this blog was hit with a number of spam comments, all advertising tubal reversal, naming a particular clinic and doctor. I removed the spam. I contacted the clinic, and they claim to know nothing about it. Riiight.

    • ValiantBlue

      Thanks so much for sharing your observations! I found a gynecologist who will do a tubal for me, which I’m very excited about. I’m waiting for them to run my insurance to find out exactly what my out-of-pocket expense will be so that I can work out a financing plan. Of course, I did some research myself prior to my consult (as a 26-year-old without children, I was putting on war paint for an It’s My Body and My Choice verbal smackdown). I noticed the same questionable aspects of the references to PTLS that I was finding.

      The doctor seemed impressed that I brought an essay on why I don’t ever want kids and precisely why sterilization is *the* preferable form of birth control for me. It went in my chart. :)

      (By the by, I took a lot of my ideas from you, Julie. Thank you so much for putting your experience out there to provide others with information on the topic that’s actually helpful.)

      The doctor really made my day when he just looked at me matter-of-factly and breezily said, “Yeah, I’ll do it for you.”

      I’m happily a step closer to the peace of mind in sterilization, thanks to real women – who are capable of processing thought – speaking up over the “I Haven’t Been The Same Since” minions.

      • Julie Was Here

        Fist off, congratulations! And good on you for going to the doctor prepared.

        Yes, there is a peace of mind that comes with the permanent fix. I feel much more confident and optimistic about my life. I really do. I know that my life belongs to me and don’t have to worry about sudden derailment by parenthood.

        Plus, I get to enjoy sex now without worrying about a thing.

        I truly feel free.

        You mentioned what I’ve written being helpful to you. I’m glad. I ask a favor: pass it on. Write and talk about your own experience as well – you might just help someone else of you do. :)

        • ValiantBlue

          Thanks! I’m so glad I put into writing why I wanted this done. In it I have a quick reference of many reasons why I don’t want kids, and I felt I needed all the evidence I could provide that I had considered every aspect of the procedure. However, even though I’ve pretty much always “just known”, the very process of writing about it and articulating the reasons “why” actually helped me to feel very grounded and at peace in my decision.

          Interestingly, as an aside, the doctor didn’t seem familiar with the term “tocophobia” (the irrational fear of pregnancy and childbirth). I explained that I included the term in my essay to highlight my aversion to the prospect of childbirth over a simple lack of interest in it. I also explained, however, that the definition of the word is somewhat misrepresentative of my feeling on the subject – in one aspect. I find my fear of childbearing, and desire to avoid it, entirely rational in terms of my preferences and life aspirations.

          I’m so glad your experience has been liberating for you – I’m looking forward to that extension of self-ownership for myself, and I absolutely plan on sharing my experience. I’m bound to help a few souls and piss off some trolls along the way ;)

          • Julie Was Here

            I think writing about why one doesn’t want kids is hard because it’s the wrong way to go about the decision. Not having kids is the default. It’s having kids that should have to be justified. One should have to have very good reasons to breed.

            I think that the idea that aversion to pregnancy is in any way irrational come from misogynist perceptions of the value of women. Pregnancy is common, causes illness, is debilitating, hamstrings one’s ambitions in life, is agonizingly painful, disfigured ones body, is emotionally traumatic, and has many short and long term risks including death. People ignore all this because they have the idea that it’s what women are supposed to do. Our own emotions, bodies, health, and lives do not matter. If there was a similar affliction that men were vulnerable to, no one would call worry over it where there was risk a phobia.

            • ValiantBlue

              I absolutely agree. In my case, writing wasn’t how I arrived at the decision but reinforced my conviction in knowing that I would be doing what I truly want for the long-term in making this decision permanently. I know I don’t have to justify my decision to anyone – save for making minor concessions to the doctor in the interest of having this procedure done. I justify it to the only person whose opinion on it really matters: me. I’m content knowing that I have done so fully.

              I can’t think of any good reasons for *me* to have kids… the only one remotely qualifying, the passing on of reasonable intelligence, is quashed by otherwise defective gene traits in hereditary ailments. It’s not worth it.

              Pregnancy itself indeed should be a scary-ass concept for any reasonable person. Besides all the other horrible things that happen to a woman’s body during childbearing, I have one word.



              Steven Tyler (of all people!) once said, “If men bled, would tampons be free?”

              • Pregnancy and childbirth can both be very dangerous, even low-risk pregnancies. Mine was very low-risk, I had no issues whatsoever during pregnany, then during delivery, I ended up needing an emergency c-section because the fetus got stuck and the heartrate had plummeted. The doctor didnt even have time to give me anesthetic before cutting me open, I wasn’t aware until I came home from the hospital that I had gone into shock and almost died myself.
                Anyone who can possibly say a fear of pregnancy is irrational obviously has never experienced an unexpected issue.

              • Julie Was Here

                Yeah, pregnancy is dangerous. People often pretend that it isn’t, but it is. And many women who go through it cant seem to be bothered to do the research and learn the risks beforehand. Its sad, really.

                What’s really awful is when women almost die that way, but then are dumb enough to do it again, now acutely aware of the risk and free of “it couldn’t happen to ME,” syndrome. I hope you learned.

                I didn’t know that you had any such complication. No one who texted me or sent me pictures made any mention of it. I had to ask them how you were doing to even get them to comment on you at all. It’s like you ceased I be important once you fulfilled your purpose and all anyone cared about anymore was the golden sprog. I was only supposed to talk about the baby, not the baby-machine, it seemed.

                Now I’m even more disgusted at your so-called “friends” who mindlessly congratulated you, as they didn’t see fit,in any comment that I read, to comment on your safety or recovery, as if you didn’t even matter. I don’t think those people really care about you at all.

                But then, anyone who shows you honest concern and tough love, anyone who wants better for you is some kind of an evil witch anyway, apparently…

                I hate to gloat, but I did tell you you were making a mistake. Next time you tell me that it wasn’t a mistake at all an that I’m the one with a problem, just remember how lucky you are to even be alive to argue.

                Edit: BTW, I spoke to mom. She said that didn’t happen.

  24. Very glad I found your blog post after reading about TL and PTLS. It is way too easy to get carried away over symptoms and syndromes on the internets.

    • Julie Was Here

      Ah, yes, the internets. Where Joe Smoe thinks he’s an expert and that actual experts are conspiring against him.

      Sometimes I find it’s as much a misinformation superhighway as it is otherwise. Those if us who use it must sift through crap to find real facts. I’ve made it a bit of a hobby.

  25. I really want sterilization – I have NEVER wanted to have a baby come out of my body and then raise it. That just seems… well, disgusting to me, honestly.
    So far I’m having trouble getting started, mainly because of costs. I’m really glad I found your blog.

    I read all the comments. It amazes me that the Bible-God people don’t even realize how rude they are being to you. Sheesh… unbelievable.

  26. well how do you explain me? I had a TL in 2008 at 22 yrs old. immediatly after my period got soo bad i quit my job. Not to mention i have NEVER taken a SINGLE birth control pill in my life NOT ONE! I cant say if its real or not seeing as i am still tied cuz i cant afford a reversal right now. I have absolutly no desire to get pregnant again. i have four babies im done! I see all the posts about ptls and symptoms and imust say i to have many of them. BUT as i read on here about the drs and all the women how am i supposed to know if they all arent in cahoots together? All i know is i am willing to pay the money and see for myself if this is a true surgical related issue. i think of it as my own ecperiment cuz i to happen to be skeptical but im a skeptic with the so called symptoms of ptls. im from missouri and i will be doimg my own blog at some point since so far i do not fall under any of the catagoriess mentioned. Im young so not perimeno. Never takim birth control pills in my life. Not wanting any more kids. I just need to know for myself and wonder if maybe by chance there is hope out there. if not i can say haha jokes on me you jus took my money and im still having issues lol. so im doimg the TR for an expiremental for myself and if it happens to help then that be cool.

    • Julie Was Here

      You had four kids by the age of 22. Well, no shit you weren’t on birth control. I don’t suppose the number 7 billion means anything to you.

      Let me guess, you were sterilized with the birth of your last one, right? My mom did the same thing (except she only had three kids and was much older by then.) So how do you know your problems weren’t caused by giving birth? It’s funny how often people ignore the damage that does.

      And what kind of sterilization procedure did you get, because there are many. Sever and burn, tie, clamp?

      I got my tubal at 22, and not a thing has happened to me. Well, my periods got heavier, but that was because I was off hormonal birth control. My periods just went back to exactly how they were before I started taking birth control years ago. Why would you have problems, but not me? Sure, every person is different, but our organs still perform the same job.

      Speaking of jobs that organs perform, can you think of any reason that severing a Fallopian tube would cause you any problems at all? They don’t transfer blood, and they neither produce nor transfer hormones.
      I doubt a mother of four can afford to waste much money, so you should think that question through very carefully first.

      • No i got my tubal after my son was born he was six weeks old. and as ive said im skeptical to but with every other test ive had done come back normal it leave me confused. which is why i said im not sure if its true or not so im also on ur mindset about the whole thing so no need to be a super bitch. maybe if you woulda read my whole post you woulda seen that im not sure about it all. i do know for me that it will be worth the money for one last test. Now i have also had an endometrial oblation the nxt yr after my tubal who know maybe i jus shouldnt have done it to begin with. And if or when i get it reversed weather that helps or not at least ill know that its all bullshit first hand. But i cant say either way if it is or if its not. yes my periods became unbearable after the tubal thats why i did tje oblation to jus stop it problem solved and it did work no more periods thank god. but little by little more symptoms that i never had before started showing up. headaches weight gain after id gotten back down to my 89 lbs yes 89 im very short and thats a nirmal weight fir my height. gastro problems , i can keep going but if ur familar with the so called symptom i have many although alot have lessened. im open to hear both sides. why are you quick to think i did it right after i had a baby? so since im young not menopausal. since i dont want anymore im not regretful. since ive never takin bc, and niw you know i did not do it right after baby. where does that leave me in the statistics of these women you describe? im asking nicely i really wanna know. that way who knows you maybe able to swade me. i had the clamps.. and everything i read the ovaries DO send estrogen to the uterous and when blocked it can completly stop the hormones. i dunno i will have to relook that up its been a while. so now u have more info about it wjere does that leave me doc?

        • Julie Was Here

          Sorry, I don’t have time for a full response right now. I can tell you one thing though, the Fallopian tubes do not transfer hormones. That’s the job of your blood vessels.

          It’s possible that the problem is the clamps. The body doesn’t always like having foreign objects in it. I know mine didn’t like my IUD when I had it, or the plate I have in my arm. It’s something to look on to.

          Btw, I’m about 85 lbs at 4’11

          • Wow that was fast lol well maybe thats jus what it is then. all i know is im a diff persn and i dnt like it lol maybe one day it will all jus click and my body heal itself haha ya right. all i know is i read that those blood vessels can get dammaged but with being terribly bad with the anatomy and what functions they serve i am in no position to say. but i also agree with the foreign object theory not sure if were meant for man made objects to become a part of our bodies. I have never tried any other type of contraceptives so this whole thing is new but if i go get the clamps takim out and i start to get better ill post again with personal experience unless its unneeded. i jus maybe someone who can say hey you were right it was the clamps (maybe a while lol)

  27. Wow Julie…I’m glad you had a tubal. No child should be raised by someone with the anger and hatred you have. Hmmm…let’s see take the word of many many many women who suffer from PTLS or some crap research you found? I hope upon all hopes you develope symptoms from it. You see..the symptoms don’t all come on all at once. They develope over time until you have many of them that nothing helps. Come back in a couple yrs and let us know your list. :)

    • Julie Was Here

      Plenty of people claim to have been abducted by aliens too. It doesn’t make it true. I’ll stick with facts and reality, thanks.

      You wish harm upon me and you think I’m the angry, hateful one? Yeah, fuck you, you nasty cunt.

  28. I had a tubaligation in 1993 and have had severe cramps every month for the past 19 years. I never had this level of cramps prior to my surgery. I was 27 when I had this surgery after my third child. I would NEVER recommend this to anyone. I hope yours went well and that you do not experience anything like what I and other women have experienced. This being said, you should not belittle the pain or suffering of someone else based on what you are experiencing. Each person is different and our bodies ARE NOT all the same. SYNDROME or NOT, I know what my experience has been and I would not wish this on anyone! Come on MENOPAUSE!

    • Julie Was Here

      You had cramps after having a third child? That’s not surprising, giving birth can do some pretty nasty things to a body.

      I’ve been doing a bit of research on the matter lately, and there seems to be a trend of women who previously had mild cramps it no cramps at all unexpectedly developed worse cramps after giving birth, sometimes to a second, third, etc time. And those are women who did NOT have a tubal.

      • Some pretty nasty things can happen to everyone’s body, including yours. I hope God shows grace with yours. With all that pent up anger I doubt your body will see much grace:)

        • Julie Was Here

          My body is doing fine thanks. Great, in fact. I don’t go doing awful things to it like breeding.

          Why doesn’t your imaginary friend help you?

          • Too bad your mother was the breeding type. And how could you say I wish harm upon you if you don’t think ptls exists. If you don’t think it exists, then certainly there’s no harm to have done to you..right?

            • Julie Was Here

              Whether or not ptls is real (it isn’t) is of no relevance to the fact that you did, being the disgusting excuse for a human being that you are, wish harm upon me.

              I sincerely hope that you are sterile as horrid people like you should not be allowed near innocent children.

          • He does everyday! Our bodies are never going to be perfect!:) I may have these problems, but I also have 5 blessings (my children) that he gave me. These 5 blessings will be there for me when I need them as I am for my own mother. There is no need for you to get so worked up about things; you might cause your body more harm than good.

            • Julie Was Here

              Yeah, the thing about your kids… They aren’t miracles or gifts from the one true Santa. Their creation was the result of a simple and common biological process no more remarkable than the production of CO2 when baking soda meets vinegar. Your kids aren’t here because of god, they’re here because you took a load of semen.

              • They are still blessings to me. I believe that there has to be some outer being that createdus don’t you? I don’t believe that we have always been here. Everyone is entitledto their own opinion

              • Oh and the load of semen I took was incredible!:)

              • Julie Was Here

                I’m finding it very difficult to not make a turkey baster joke.

              • It won’t bother me if you do, but it only shows your maturity level.

              • Julie Was Here

                Said the supposed adult who has an imaginary friend.

  29. Goodness a lot of people care what a woman on the internet does with her uterus. Seriously, who cares if she doesn’t want kids? Why do you care?

    Look at the list of post tubal “symptoms.” Read them all, there are 45 of them! From moody irritability to itchy dry vagina? How would crimping fallopian tubes cause a dry vag? It has nothing to do with hormones or anything. Maybe you’re irritable or moody because you have 3 kids? I have two toddlers and that makes me irritable sometimes.

    The others are breast size (increase or decrease, how convenient for the list maker!), incontinence, sudden tears(?) tension, fatigue, and decreased libido. These are all post-pregnancy effects too! Cramps? If we’re accepting anecdotal evidence, well mine have gotten better. Maybe I should credit tubal ligation? There are so many other reasons that these could be happening even if you don’t have postpartum issues. Depression, brain tumors, hypochondria, sometimes things just happen.

    And I dearly wish people stop being so nasty about how “I’m glad you don’t have kids Julie Was Here.” You know what? I’m glad she doesn’t either, because it is a choice she has made and good for her. And she can talk about not having kids however she wants to because free speech is awesome. And again, why do you care? Why does it threaten you so much that you have to take the time to make lame passive-aggressive jabs referencing your personal god and how you hope blah blah bitchcakes. Grow up you ridiculous cow.

    Again, if you came here looking for info about post-tubal ligation syndrome. I had two pregnancies and with the last one opted for tubal ligation. I am fine.

    Look past anecdotes and vague personal stories. Look at the huge list of symptoms and ask yourself why it would be so long and all-inclusive. What other reasons could there be for all those “symptoms.” Who benefits from this expensive reversal surgery? Look up what ovaries do and don’t do, how hormones work and what pregnancy can really do to your body (my bladder has never recovered, which incidentally is on the 45 “symptoms” list too! It’s a seriously stupid and useless list.).

    • Julie Was Here

      Just so you know, you’re my hero for the day. Thanks for being awesome. :)

    • @clover, there’s no need for anyone to be so hateful to each other here, including you; we are all women and human beings. None of us really know any of this for certain we can only speak of our own personal experiences. We should learn to respect each others opinion and not bash each other. I had a cousin who her and her husband made a decision for him to get a bysectomy instead of her getting a tubal. For a good bit of time she was on birth control and she could no longer be on it. She did this because she knew that she would abuse her children because she was abused physically. Everyone has their own reason for doing things.

      • Julie Was Here

        Bullshit. Personal experiences are meaningless without demonstrative knowledge. And yes, on the matter of PTLS, we CAN know for sure. Not only are those perpetuating the ptls myth consistently unable to furnish even the slightest shred of evidence, but all the research and data collection ever done on the matter completely and utterly undermines any claim that such a syndrome exists at all.

      • Clover Sends Regrets

        @Tonya: Who exactly is being hateful? Is it all these anonymous people barging in on someone’s blog to be snippy twits? You are not this blog’s author and have no right or reason to dictate what or how I choose write. Don’t let’s pretend otherwise.

        “None of us know any of this for certain”? Did you read the articles and check the sources listed? The ones that don’t lead to reversal clinics are anecdotal. Anecdotes are just stories with nothing beyond feelings to back them up. Some people in this comment section have problems (post-pregnancy) spanning decades. A great deal can happen to an endocrine system in twenty years. One “symptom” of post tubal-ligation is, quoting the top Google search result on ptls, “osteoporosis (after several years)”. Well, no shit. Osteoporosis occurs over time that’s literally in it’s definition. It’s not even premature osteoporosis, just a “symptom” that can occur in 1 in 5 women over 50.

        And I should certainly not respect every random opinion I come across. Some people hold harmful or absurd opinions. Nodding along is, frankly, stupid and simply believing other people no matter what they say just because we share some biology is ridiculous. I think it is sad that these women suffer pain or an itchy dry vagina for years, but that doesn’t excuse them perpetuating a story that has no grounding in observation or evidence.

        • There’s no need for foul language or calling names. This is a true statement: None of us really know any of this for certain we can only speak of our own personal experiences. When I say us I mean people blogging on this site. I’m not trying to get anyone upset. I’m not trying to dictate anything. Why all the hatred? Why all the disbelief or belief? You can’t convince people of what you believe if you are so negative and closed minded. Just because people did research and made reports does not mean what’s in the reports are all true. We are Human beings, none of us are always completely truthful. We should be kinder to our fellow beings.

  30. Have you not read the many stories of women who have had a reversal and have gone back to “normal”.

    • Julie Was Here

      Yeah, funny how stories by women who aren’t claiming miracle cures after reversal generally aren’t published on the websites of doctors selling those reversals, which, curiously, are the only sites where anyone pretends ptls is real and curable with reversal.

      On a related note, did you hear that they took the word “gullible” out of the dictionary? Go look.

  31. I personally believe that these conditions probably exists because no one knows just how their body will react to any drug or medical procedure. I myself am a mess, if there is a side effect, I will get it whether or not I am aware of it. The latest was a reaction to Aldara that very well may be life threatening. The side effect was not recognized until after it had been on the market long enough and people had taken it to see what all could happen. What we should do it meta analysis on this stuff to find out what the chances are and what the genetic differences that affect it are. When I look at the diagnosis here, there is a chance I had it but there was also the peri-menopause thing going on too. Some women sail through their menopause and some like my great grandmother end up in the nut-house. My mother did not do well and I did a little better because I recognized it for what it was. I applaud you for your ability to accept responsibility for your decisions. We all make decisions in life, some good, some we regret but the trick is to keep moving forward. The women who suffer most from childlessness are the ones who had no choice. My mother felt trapped saddled with 7 kids before choices were available while other women blossomed in their choice to have a large family. It really is all about choice. Thanks for all the research you have done on this topic. Incidently though Drs don’t know half as much as they think they do so you have to be your own advocate and expert on any problem you may have. At least that it what my favorite Dr tells me.

  32. I am getting a TL in the morning and I can see no medical, scientific reason not to and I have been through nursing school. I got an A+ in anatomy and physiology, thank you. PTLS makes NO sense from a medical stand point. Rock On with this website sister! And thank you for your common sense and willingness to voice it!! :)

  33. So, yesterday was my TL and I was very sore inside my abdomen last night but my case was different. Since I have PCOS(poly cystic ovarian syndrome) the surgeon while inside my abdomen found a tennis ball sized cyst on my left ovary and removed it! But other then feeling tender in the abdomen and my neck being sore, I really don’t feel any new “Syndromes ” followed me I have two kids whom I love dearly but I am done and I feel this is the best decision I have made in a long time! Also, due to my PCOS the surgeon said my ovaries were quite enlarged and inflamed, which I assume is contributing to my feelings of tenderness and being sore. Now that I am fixed I can focus on getting my health and weight where I need and deserve it to be without worrying about another pregnancy getting in my way! :)

    • Congrats and good luck with finding yourself again! I am one month plus past my TL and loving it. I feel soooo much better being off all the hormones. I’m also starting to lose weight which I haven’t been able to do in 2 years.

  34. By the way I am 33 years old and positive I am done having children.

  35. That is awesome Michelle and thanks for sharing because I am wondering what it will be like in a month and it’s great to hear some positive feedback! My doctor also started me on metformin because my PCOS has caused insulin resistance and I too am looking forward to losing weight. I have been on birth control pills for years and I am SO excited to be hormo
    ne free!

  36. Thank you so much for writing this. I have a friend who us getting a tubal soon and she is completely freaking out over the ptls thing. At least now, because of you, we have an actual medical point-of-view and I thank you immensely for that!

  37. so i have been looking into this since someone i know said they have it and i was genuinely curious to its occurence and existence. my daughter will be delivered in teo and a half weeks and i am getting a tubal at the same time so im looking to understand it. i noticed 90% of the articles are for tubal reversal sites, and keep reffering to hormones and i dont see how they go down, they are still there your body still functions the same and they are so much so there people still get pregnant.
    i am currently in the antipartum wing of my hospital until delivery and i asked my nurse about ptls and she looked at me very confused and asked what in the world it was. i said its supposed to be like pmdd but ten fold, she wasnt even clear as to what pmdd was but she more or less laughed off ptls and asked about medical backing which well, there is none. she was as perplexed at the notion as i was.

    • Julie Was Here

      I’m on my phone so I can’t provide a link right now, but I do recall reading scientific studies between fixed and unaltered women which found little to no difference in hormone levels. And that makes sense.

      I’m no doctor, but I’m very certain that hormones are neither produced not transferred by the Fallopian tubes. I do, however, know that pregnancy and breastfeeding have an effect on hormones, so watch that.

      I got fixed just over a year ago. I have had stronger cramps since my tubal. However, it was not the tubal that has caused this, but going off hormonal birth control. Since I’m no longer on hormonal birth control, my menstrual cycles have returned to what they were when I was a teenager.

  38. Michelle Cunningham

    I spoke with my OBGYN and he said it was hormonal changes after having a child. Well, I had the tubal ligation done and my period didn’t start for 7 months. I went to my OBGYN and he told me all was fine and said if it didn’t start in the next few weeks he would put me on a low dose BC. It started the next week. So did migraines, itching all over, brittle nails, depression, anxiety, irritability, and my hair was falling out. I was put on all kinds of meds. I had never had these issues and had mever been on any meds (not even birth control) before this. Nothing would get rid of the headaches. A year and a half later and $7,000 in my pocket I had a Tubal Ligation Reversal. Within 4 months I was back to normal. You can say there is nothing to back it up and look at it logically. Coming from someone who suffered from it I’m telling you it is real and it is horrible for the ones who have to suffer through it. Women may get upset because you are basically telling them they are crazy or it must be something else. We know our bodies and I am confident in saying that although a dr never diagnosed me I didn’t need confirmation to take action into my own hands and here I am doing great.

    • Julie Was Here

      You, having zero medical qualifications, think you can just diagnose yourself with some imaginary syndrome, and you think this qualifies as an argument for the existence of such a syndrome? Really? I could as well diagnose myself with some made-up disorder, blame it on something random, and then pretend that my phony diagnosis is proof that the disorder is real.

      Well, come on, doctor, enlighten us. Give some plausible explanation how severing Fallopian tubes, which do not produce hormones nor play a part in circulation, can have the effects that you claim. Until you can do that, your self-diagnosis is worthless and has absolutely no merit.

      Most likely, the real cause of your symptoms is exactly what your doctor said it was, birth. You know who really knows bodies? Doctors.

      But hey, I’m glad your insanely expensive placebo worked.

  39. First of all, I’d like to say I like your blog and appreciate all the effort and research you put into it. Every method of BC has its success and horror stories. It’s all about finding out what works with your own body.

    However, there seems to be too many accounts of these side effects happening to completely deny the existence of PTLS, it just seems like a form of early menopause or a hormone imbalance (both of which unarguably exist). I know many people would argue that a TL shouldn’t affect your hormone levels, but I must have missed the part of the internet that provides any evidence or specific reasons why. Why WOULDN’T a tubal ligation affect your hormone balance? “My doctor told me so” isn’t a good enough answer (as I’m sure that wasn’t a good enough reason for you either). Wouldn’t severing your ovaries from your uterus disrupt that natural hormonal balance in some way?

    It’s commonly known and reported that tubal ligations are correlated with a reduced incidence of ovarian cancer. Why is that? Doctors seem pretty ok with saying “We don’t know why it is, but there is a correlation”. This study: states “In relation to both ovarian cancer and endometrial and breast cancer, it has been hypothesized that the decreased risk, if confirmed, could be related to alterations in the levels of endogenous hormones (oestrogen, progesterone), which may occur following tubal sterilization.” So if lowered hormones AS A RESULT OF TL can affect you positively (lowered risk of ovarian cancer), why couldn’t they affect you negatively (early menopause, hormone imbalance, or PTLS)?

    Maybe I’m cynical, but just because some in the medical field question PTLS’s authenticity at this time means nothing to me (or the many, many women that have these problems and are dismissed by their healthcare providers), because it may one day be recognized it as a true medical condition once more is understood about it. I read the part where you don’t dispute the fact that women can experience these problems, but you seem to attribute their symptoms to having kids, age, stopping the pill, or some other circumstantial situation. Have you heard from any of your readers that had these symptoms WITHOUT all those other situations and their problems dissipated with a TL reversal? You would post them if you did, or just dismiss it as coincidence?

    I know you have a blog passionately trying to debunk the existence of PTLS, but if you honestly have/had developed ANY of those symptoms- I would like to know the truth, without any kind of bias towards defending your previous anti-PTLS stance. You can privately message me, if you prefer.

    I’m just curious because I have an appointment to get my tubes tied and I would like an honest, objective account of your experience from someone who has a similar situation as me:

    I’m young-ish 28
    I have no kids
    I’ve never been on any kind of hormonal BC
    I’m utterly repulsed by the idea of having children

    I have a copper IUD now and I’m really happy with it, but a problem has arisen and I can no longer keep it (not associated with the IUD). The first few months my cramps were hell and I almost had two periods a month (I’d bleed when ovulating and my regular period). I’ll be honest, the first few months sucked, but my body adjusted and I’ve had absolutely no problems with it since. I actually have lighter periods which I’m happy about. What did your body go through while in its adjustment stage, if you don’t mind me asking?

    I appreciate the info

    PS I’m not trying to start shit or argue. I’m legitimately concerned and have been finding mixed and biased information from both sides of the issue.
    Plus… googling your symptoms is the quickest way to convince yourself you’re dying

    • Julie Was Here

      Plenty of people have claimed to have been abducted by aliens, to have seen Bigfoot, and to be psychic too. It doesn’t mean shit without evidence. And the evidence is strongly against PTLS.

      As for why a tubal wouldn’t affect hormones, the answer is simply that the Fallopian tubes have nothing to do with the production or transfer of hormones. And as studies have shown, tubals do not affect hormone levels.

  40. Wow that was deep…and completely unrelated and unhelpful

    Thanks for that “because I said so” defense, very persusasive.

    I just presented you with a study that challenges your stance, but feel free to ignore it to further your agenda. This is your blog after all

    However, I should point out that an article you, yourself, reference ( claims that women under 30 have an INCREASED risk of hormonal changes following a tubal ligation. Therefore, that logically implies that EVERYONE has at least SOME risk. The fact that you ignore contradictory evidence is one of the reasons why people consider you close minded. You act like everything that has been discovered has already been reported on and drs and studies today provide all the answers. The medical field is ever changing and constantly gaining more information and knowledge. The fact is, is that they don’t know everything and just because they dismiss all these suffering women’s syptoms, doesn’t equal lack of proof.

    Also thanks for avoiding the most important question of my entire post- have you developed any pre-menopausal symtoms after your tubal.

    I really wish this blog was like 10+ years old, so we could see if your tubal resulted in any hormonal changes or premature menopause down the road.

    I hope it doesn’t. I hope you’re right. Have a nice day

  41. ValiantBlue

    Defensive much? That doesn’t make you look like the more logical person. There’s a fine line between snark and volatility.

    The medical field *is* ever changing, which is why she said “the evidence is strongly against PTLS”, not “there is no such thing as PTLS and never will be.” Propagandists seldom leave that little bit of wiggle room to allow for the unanticipated, such as tangible evidence of PTLS.

    Also, I’m having trouble seeing where you specifically asked your “most important question of [your] entire post.” You asked what her body went through while in its adjustment stage, not whether she experienced pre-menopausal symptoms. It helps to check your correspondence for the intended message before going all honeybadger on the other party for not addressing what you *meant* to ask.

  42. ValiantBlue

    Excuse me. I reread your fifth paragraph in the first post. I stand corrected and illustrate my own point.

    I’m just unclear as to why you’re upset to percieve a biased opinion from someone who would be expected to be biased by her own experience – what objective would she have in conning women into getting tubals by telling them they’ll be just fine? I don’t see any links or popups here for TLR clinics to make profits from women whose concerns have been assuaged here only to find that PTLS is very real and very bad. So, of course she’s biased. She’s happy with her decision.

    • You need to re-read it again, maybe even multiple times. It’s ok, take your time.
      You’ll see she avoided answering any of the questions…

      I’ll help you out- questions end in question marks (?)
      For example: Who the hell are you?

      Statements are finished with a period (.)
      Such as: I don’t remember asking for YOUR opinion.

      I asked for hers, which may or may not have changed, especially if she has developed any problems. I asked for the truth and not just more propaganda about being child-free, not adding to the world population, and her trying to substantiate her own blog (those would be her objectives).

      • Julie Was Here

        My iPhone ate my first reply, so I hope this one fares better.

        Holy fuck! What I’ve said is not only internally consistent, but is also consistent with demonstrable reality! What a shock! It must be a conspiracy! No doubt this is a bunch of childfree agenda propaganda. Better go get those tin foil hats ready, so the CIA cant read your mind.

        You know what actually does seem fishy? No medical organization accepts PTLS as a legitimate thing. The only places you can find doctors claiming it’s positive existence is on those doctors’ websites when those doctors are selling reversals. Hmm… No, no. That doesn’t seem suspicious at all, does it? Right, right, ignore the man behind the curtain.

        If I didn’t know any better, I’d say you sound like you want me to have some kind of problem. Sorry to burst your bubble, or rather, sorry to burst it AGAIN as I HAVE indeed answered this question, I have not had any problems. Bursting your bubble again, I say to you now that your question is neither unique nor clever as its been asked and answered multiple times in this very page. I assume that you can read (despite your repeated problems comprehending the meaning of the terms “may” and “might”) and thus I should have no need to repeat myself.

        On the subject of unanswered questions, it hasn’t escaped my notice that you haven’t been able to provide any explanation as to why severing a body part that plays no role on the production or circulation of hormones, and plays no health-related role at all, can have any affect on the endocrine system. Granted, the question was only implied, but your silence on the matter is still very noticeable.

        You are right about one thing, my hormones probably will be different in 10years from what they are now. I expect the same would likewise be true of any non-sterilized woman as well. That’s not PTLS, dear, it’s actually this little phenomenon we like to call AGING. You might have heard of it.

        That non-sterilized woman is important. She (along with a number of unaltered women like her,) would make what’s called a “control group.” Control groups are how we isolate variables. If you’re looking at variables, you should account for other things that can and do affect hormones like, for instance, birth control and childbirth, things most women are affected by.

        Speaking if childbirth, why is it that I only ever hear of mothers diagnosing themselves with PTLS? I could be wrong, but i have never once heard of a single childfree woman complain of ptls, despite a high rate of sterilization among childfree women (control group.) And say, aren’t tubals often performed shortly after giving birth? And why do moms often complain of PTLS-like symptoms, even if they never had a tubal ligation to blame?

        You know, I’ve provided studies, medical data, and even a goddam diagram of the female reproductive system including supporting blood vessels. Meanwhile, your argument upon coming here was nothing more than third party anecdotes from medically-uneducated women who diagnose themselves from a laundry list of umbrella symptoms provided only by the websites of doctors selling the “cure.” And yet you accuse me of having a “because I say so,” attitude. Is your irony-meter broken?

        Speaking of studies, you might want to actually bother to READ what you link to. Funny thing, this study looks familiar. I’m pretty sure I’ve cited it myself before.

        “CONCLUSION(S): Tubal sterilization is not associated with an increased risk of menstrual dysfunction, dysmenorrhea, or increased premenstrual distress in women who undergo the procedure after age 30 years. There may be some increased risk for younger women, although they do not appear to undergo significant hormonal changes.”

        One last thing, bitch. Who are YOU? Who asked YOUR opinion? This may shock your ass, but you’re not some special princess. Other people get to comment here too, it’s not just you. Deal with it. Don’t act like you own this comments section – only I get to do that here. Keep that shit up and you won’t be posting here much longer.

        • Ah there it is- finally, a legitimate response. Apparently all I have to do is piss you off…and that’s easy enough. Actually I did read your blog and the studies you referenced. I even included one you cited, genius. Judging from both yours and ValiantBlue’s inattentive posts, neither of you actually read my post or bothered to look at the study I provided. So if you’re asking whether or not I read through all your comments to find your current update- no I most certainly did not. If you had an updates page that I overlooked, you could have referenced it in your first post.

          All I asked for was a moment of your time. If you weren’t willing to provide that, then why do you even allow people to post on your blog? (That question was rhetorical, you don’t need to address it). Honestly, I really don’t care anymore, this has become a gigantic waste of time.

          Also, maybe no one takes you seriously because you sound like a bratty, sarcastic child

          • Julie Was Here

            Yeah, as important as you like to think you are, princess, I’m not bound to your schedule. I check for comments when I feel like, and respond if I feel like. I have a life, you know, and it sure as hell doesn’t revolve around you.

            But you think you’ve pissed me off? That’s cute. Kid, you’ve been my entertainment.

            Funny, you claim to have read what I wrote, yet you clearly didn’t. I pointed out, in my previous response, that I had once cited that very study, and you point this out now like it’s a new revelation that somehow zings me. And you somehow insist that I haven’t read the article, that even you admit that I had previously cited. I even QUOTED the study in my previous comment, the quote proving your wrong about what you claimed the study found (meaning that you clearly didn’t read it.)

            If you’re going to write in a comments thread, you are expected to read the comments. I don’t need a dozen people asking the same question and I’ve sure got better things to do than answer the same question. I’m reminded of a blonde joke I heard once.

            “Two blondes are waiting at a bus stop.

            When a bus pulls up and opens the door, one of the blondes leans inside and asks the bus driver:”Will this bus take me to 5th Avenue?”

            The bus driver shakes his head and says,”No, I’m sorry.”

            At this the other blonde leans inside, smiles, and twitters: ”Will it take ME?””


            Such actions do not deserve the dignity of a response.

            You need not look for any update page. You need only read THIS page, the one you’re currently on (assuming you’re not reading this from your E-mail.) Other commenters have already asked this SAME question, and have been answered. On principle, I refuse to answer again. Sure, it would be easier for me and take less time if I did, but A. I don’t like to reward people for failures in attention, and B. I don’t like your entitlement-minded attitude, so I’m not inclined to comply with your demands.

            I allow people to post on my blog because most people are able to do so sensibly, and without the attitude that they own the place and are entitled to make demands of me, or attack other commenters just for posting. You have some serious etiquette issues which you need to work on. If you can manage that, maybe your presence wouldn’t be so very unwelcomed.

            I’m very amused that you think I’m the sarcastic, bratty, childish one who isn’t taken seriously. Honey, you sorely need a mirror. Oh, well. I guess I’ll just enjoy my well-researched and often-cited post, my respectable readership base, and my joyful sterility. Enjoy your… I don’t know what you do with your time, but it clearly isn’t reading, that’s for sure.

  43. ValiantBlue

    While it’s against my principles to indulge trolling, it begs to be mentioned that Julie didn’t ask your opinion either.

    Punctuation doesn’t constitute a coherently phrased question or sentence. It just helps clarify the context, which doesn’t go far if the words don’t go together in a way that makes sense.

    As logic would dictate, I am a reader of this blog. I read your comments and engaged in a transfer of information via an internet connection. That’s usually how blogs work.

    Again: Defensive much?

  44. Do what you want but if you enjoy sex at all, you will not want to have a tubal ligation. My Dr. said no problems would occur and since the procedure after my fifth child, I have not felt the sensations from my breasts to my bottom when my wonderful husband touches me. I will tell my daughters NEVER to have this procedure done. I will get a reversal if able but I surely know my body and it has changed since the procedure. Be so cool and enjoy thinking you are smarter than the women who try to tell you you may regret it. If you do not enjoy sex, then go right ahead. If you do, you are cheating your husband and yourself of the full joy of all that you have enjoyed all your life together. Some like us are mentally so connected we can get past it, but why risk having to give up something that is so wonderful as the wonderful burn of desire that women are so Blessed to have. It will be worth the 6K to be made whole again. My husband deserves me back. I deserve me back. I love sex. I love my husband. Do what you want to and you and only you will know how silly your cavalier attitude has been about a surgery that is sterilization of a woman that is no different than making a pedophile not feel the urges to go after their prey. Only we are not predators, we are loving spouses and just trusted our Dr that this procedure was safer than the cancer causing hormones in birth control pills. I could not tolerate them either. I wish you well young one.

    • Julie Was Here

      Why don’t you tell your daughters to not have kids, and certainly not to have 5 of them? If you really cared about them, you would. My money is on treating a vagina as a clown car is the problem, because tubals have absolutely no such affect while birthing does. Oh, does birthing ever wreak absolute havoc on a human body. Seriously, childbirth is the #1 killer of cooters, and the damage from which is well known to sensation issues, among other, worse things. Why risk THAT?

      And you accuse other people of damaging their bodies? That’s hilarious. Ah well, whatever you need to tell yourself.

      I’ve gotta say, my sex life has been great since my tubal. Better than ever, since I don’t have to worry. Best of all, my lady bits are nice and tight, all where they should be, and I’m free of unslightly stretch marks and scars. As for sensations, those haven’t changed a bit since tubals do not affect that, and a cursory glance at a human anatomy diagram can easily reveal why.

      I really do feel sorry for the women who have, more or less, ruined their privates, as well as the rest of their bodies, by breeding. The body horror of it is one of many reasons I opt out. Do try a tubal reversal if you want, it won’t help, since the tubal wasn’t the problem. What’s needed is a condom and a time machine, I suspect. I’m not sure of there is any reconstructive surgery available to fix the damage that comes with birthing, I’m afraid.

    • LOLwhatever

      That’s funny re: your sex life going down the shitter. I was sterilised in my late twenties and my sex life improved, because the worry about unwanted pregnancy is gone. The surgery doesn’t affect libido, so I figure you’re just uptight and repressed.

  45. The only good thing about you never having children is that you will never, ever know what you are truly missing. The anger and even uncalled for insults that you spew on here is amazing. I do apologize for not realizing that you had already had your surgery. I had not read the entire blog, yet thought I would warn you against harming yourself. I am very aware of my body and am very confident that I am in the best shape of my life Spiritually, physically, emotionally, and my compassion for others led me to warn you to be cautious. I am not the only person that tried to tell you this apparently. I surely was not trying to judge you. You seem to have judged yourself already so very harshly to declare yourself unfit to have children to adore and whom would adore you. Sounds to me like you are a very passionate person and would have made a really cool parent even if you were unfortunate enough in life for no reason of your own to not have had good solid role models that taught you that you are special and that you are loved or at least let you know that you would be one day.

    Apparently, someone let you down a long time ago and yet not everyone you contact wants bad things for you. I am glad that you were born so that you can live a long life and one day get all of the answers you seek and I hope you find love that can replace the venom that is poisoning your life. No one person you meet will have all of the answers you seek and you will never know everything. One day you may just realize that you are wrong on things today you believe yourself an expert at discussing. But one day you will realize you were wonderfully made on purpose and for a purpose. I promise you that you were not made to be an angry, mean, or unloved one. Maybe you will joyfully be looking for that 6K too, one day soon when things start looking up for you. I sure hope they do. Because you literally screwed yourself when you had that surgery done and even though you will never admit it to another soul, you will know that I am right every day the rest of your life because I told you as plainly as it can be told.

    And if you do not learn to love yourself, you will never know how to love others nor be loved by others and will constantly be pushing people away. I won’t have a word war with you over how a woman’s body is as good after childbirth and even better for lovemaking. You just keep telling yourself how fine you are and see how old that gets to everyone but you as you get old and lonely if you don’t get it together young one. And the hormones that got sabotaged with the snip job will be your constant reminder that you were very wrong to rush into something trusting the medical establishment. Your hormones are going to treat you to a real harsh reality about two years into your new “freedom”. You will be scouring the internet hungrily looking for what you can do to change what you have done or at least make it bearable. And all of us fools will help you get through it because that is what we are supposed to do is help one another. Not as victims but as folks who are not afraid to admit that we made a huge mistake.

  46. “That non-sterilized woman is important. She (along with a number of unaltered women like her,) would make what’s called a “control group.” Control groups are how we isolate variables. If you’re looking at variables, you should account for other things that can and do affect hormones like, for instance, birth control and childbirth, things most women are affected by.” – your comments a few paragraphs up…..

    By the way, since you seem to fancy yourself some sort of research expert, and since you pride yourself that you are now happily sterile and have never gone through nor ever will go through child birth……… You be the control. We both had the procedure. If I have reason to have less sensation because of childbirth, then your logic would be that that would not happen to your childless body. Your hot little self is going to find it harder to have an orgasm with your friend or toys. Not that you can’t have an orgasm, but it will take you longer than ever and as far as sex, you will not really initiate it quite as often if you ever really liked sex to begin with. And when that happens as it most certainly will and you know for sure you are still the same person inside with the same desires yet all of a sudden you just do not go after them the same, you will as I said above realize then you are really screwed. Not ever gonna get pregnant, okay by you. Not ever gonna have a Baby, okay by you. Screwed by the medical establishment who said you would actually enjoy sex more without worrying about birth control. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. That is the real joke. Many young women want a divorce soon after a TL and many surely think it is just that they lost the desire for the father of thier children. Yet the next go around, after the “grass is greener” thing wears off when the newness of a new conquest wears off, and desire hits rock bottom without changing anything else, then who will they blame? I guess we could say the Drs. are keeping the Divorce Lawyers in business. But the real thing is that the girl was literally screwed like you and like me.

    Perhaps you can be the control when I stand before Congress one day to say that we both need to warn the public about this sabotage of the female body. I could laugh at you getting a procedure done without really checking it out first but I would also be laughing at myself. And I like myself, so I would never do that.

    • ValiantBlue

      Sure, an assertive woman who doesn’t acquiesce to the mewlings of disapproval she receives is a bitch.

      It’s egregiously judgmental and egomaniacal to tell someone not only that HER decision for HERSELF to remain childfree is WRONG, but indicates that they’re self-loathing and unloving – in your words, “angry, mean, and unloved.” Those are quite audacious words from someone who was not trying to judge. Furthermore, when by your own admission you haven’t read the entire blog (which would take quite some time) or apparently much of this very page, you are presumptuous enough to state to someone you have such little knowledge that she “was unfortunate enough in life…to not have had good solid role models.” What is *actually* amazing is the extent of your rudeness in addition to alleging the rudeness of someone who’s done nothing more than addressing contact initiated by others on HER place of discussion.

      I find it strange that you have such a caustic, accusatory demeanor for someone who claims to be self-liking so much more than poor hateful Julie. It’s just as hypocritical as saying you could laugh at someone for choosing to undergo the very same procedure that you did. From the sound of all the problems you attribute to it, perhaps you should have “really checked it out first.”

    • Julie Was Here

      It’s hilarious that you think you can make that kind of crap up and no one will notice.

  47. “The only good thing about you never having children is that you will never, ever know what you are truly missing.”

    This right here tells me that it’s all about REGRET for not being able to produce more offspring rather than about any physical symptoms. Let’s just call it what it is, shall we?

    What is so difficult about the simple concept – Not everyone wants kids.

    I had a TL in my early 30′s, 3.5 years ago. Been married over seven years. NO REGRETS. I’ve never had any health problems or side effects from the TL. In fact, it has increased my quality of life in that I don’t have to worry about unwanted pregnancy or side effects from hormonal birth control.

  48. Well, I didn’t have a TL I did have an Endometrial Ablation that went like text book but in the end was an epic fail that landed me in the ER and slated for a hysterectomy. Now there is nothing about what I went though that would make me tell another woman that having an EA is the wrong thing to have or do, I might have had complications from it that almost killed me but it doesn’t mean that would be the case for other women.

    I know several women who have had TLs without side effects both with kids before it and those who never chose to have kids for what ever reason of their own and I even know a small group of women who had a TL and years later had that unexpected complication that they had the TL in the first place to prevent (one of them it was a good 10+ years after).

    Each person is different and each person has that possibility of having complications and various side effects from having had surgery, doesn’t matter if its related to reproduction or what not complications and side effects are always a possibility when you go into the human body and cut, remove or block organs — its life and its what you agree to the possibilities of when you agree to have the surgery (less it’s an ER OP n you are sedated then well thats a different matter).

    Many of the so called side effects that women say they have after a TL are so ranging that it might be a side effect of the TL for them thus a possibility of a side effect of the TL over all to future women to have it — but the side effects of giving birth can also have an effect on the body that many women are more then willing to risk without doing any research on the matter. Yet will be one of the first cry fowl that they should have been told X could happen if they did or had Y dun.

    We all make choices and we all have to live with the side effect of the choices we’ve made. I live every day with the side effects of having had the hysterectomy. Yet I knew the possible side effects and risks before it happened (I didn’t fully understand the side effects of the EA though I did know some of the possibilities) and I wouldn’t change much (I’d forgo the EA and have gone direct to the hysterectomy instead). I actually never gave a TL much thought not because of possible complications (all surgery has that possibility) but because it just didn’t sound like the right course of action for me and my OBGYN even agreed that it wouldn’t solve the medical issues I was dealing with to start with (thanks to PCOS).

    Bottom line to me is, you can do all the research you like, you can read all the articles you like, you can talk to all the people you are able to talk to, but when all is said and dun only YOU can make the choice to have the surgery or not have it. YOU are the one who is in control of this choice and only you can shoulder the choices you make concerning your body for the good and not so good.

  49. Geez, PTLS symptoms seem just like one or more of the following:

    * thyroid conditions
    *post-partum depression
    *general depression and/or anxiety

    I think it’s funny that every replier as far as I could tell and who developed this supposed PTLS have already had multiple children. Maybe they had the surgery done because –

    *something went wrong in the final pregnancy or birth
    *something went wrong with one of the older children
    *hubby/significant other demanded no more children be produced

    - in which case, they have something else going on that is not PTLS.

    I work for a traffic/misdemeanor court and frequently get headaches, hives, and heavy sweating when dealing with the idiots who come through there. I’d like to think there is such thing as a legitimate Post Encounter with Stupid People Syndrome. However, all conditions are stress related, and the stress comes from the fact I simply don’t like people in general, I think most of these defendants’ problems are self-induced, and I’m stuck at this shitty job until the economy recovers to a point I can find another job.

    I am not bothering with sterilization surgery, as I am now age 38, the Pill has always worked for me, and the women in my family go through early menopause. If I wanted it, I would hate to think that this fictional syndrome might potentially make it harder for me to get the procedure done – it seems like women have a hard enough time convincing doctors to do it for them as it is, if they are childfree.

  50. Techpriestess

    Susan, the shit that was the product of your busy fingers is both stupid AND retarded. Your commentary was so bad, in fact, I have coined a new word for you. Stupiditarded. I’ll petition for it to be entered into the dictionary as; “opinionated, yet uneducated with failure to grasp concepts at the rate of the average human being”.

    Ahem. Julie has had a literal fortune of supportive medical data (both textual, and graphical) posted up on her blog rendering PTLS as false. All you need to do is look, it is there with references.

    So much for peer reviewed data, huh? But since you seem to function on allegory let me tell you my story. I had my tubal at 20. I have never had to be on birth control for a long while, so I didn’t experience any of the symptoms most women do when they get off long term birth control. 2.5 years later I’m just as horny as I ever was and I have had no change in my frequency or intensity of orgasm.

    Oh, and another damn thing;

    “Because you literally screwed yourself when you had that surgery done and even though you will never admit it to another soul, you will know that I am right every day the rest of your life because I told you as plainly as it can be told.”

    That quote really, really bothers me. Insecure much? Seems like you aren’t happy with your life choices. So, before you go chastising people for how they prefer to live their life, take a damn good look at yourself before hitting the “post” button.

  51. It was all just a joke to see if you would fall for a story posted showing an opposite opinion about your information and consider the possibility that some of these women may have something going on with their bodies that has made them almost positive that they have what many have coined PTLS. Who knows if it is real. I would personally not take the chance that you did. It is clear that your issues will always cloud your judgement listening to the women who have poured their heart out to you for whatever reason. It seemed they were trying in some way to give you their honest opinion of a syndrome that some of them feel may be very real. I hope they find their answers. I hope you learn better manners toward your fellow sisters as I did read much of your story as well as theirs and also, your research as I was conducting research for a class I was taking. I had never heard of such a syndrome and was amazed that if it were one, it is not ever spoken of in magazines or women’s health literature in great depth. Your anger and venom is however quite interesting. The literature out there does address that almost every time, a change in personality and an increase in rage is a hallmark of PTLS. Who knows how it has affected individual women and for how long in fact if it is a real syndrome. It is very interesting and at least you have folks thinking about both sides of a major life decision that women make often without researching it first. Good for you for starting a dialogue and using your time to help others understand this. Goodbye and Peace to you.

    • Julie Was Here

      So, what you’re saying, (besides that you’re a special little snowflake and the only one who gets to act like a bitch,) is that my refusal to fall for an obvious lie (that a tubal ligation causes sexual disfunction,) which blatantly contradicts medical knowledge and demonstrable scientific research, constitutes a character flaw on my part? Your story was a lie, therefore I should mindlessly believe the stories of other women, ignoring the fact that their claims are complete medical nonsense and are debunked by multiple studies?

      How many times do you have to be dropped in your head for that to even begin to make any sense at all? Of you’ve done anything, all you’ve done is demonstrate how unreliable and worthless personal anecdotes and self-diagnosis are as evidence.

      • A bitch is a pregnant dog. You decided not to be a pregnant human ever, so now you think someone is calling you what a pregnant animal is called? Why are you so angry? I did not mean to push your buttons. I just wanted you to think that maybe some women who told you about the experience actually thought what they had was PTLS for the lack of a better term. It seems they all had a surgery you were contemplating when starting this blog, and many women had the same symptoms as one another. Why would you attack them or want to discredit their self description of how they felt? Much research comes from people giving symptoms in order for patterns to arise in a researchers work over entire lifetimes……..That does no harm to you and in fact they were trying to just tell you how they felt, in case you wanted some real life examples of how some of them felt the surgery left them. It seemed kind that some women wanted to help you make your decision no different than if a person warned another that an accident was about to happen. (At least it seems that they thought you might need what they had to say to consider your choice?) I do not think anybody was judging you about it at all, certainly not me. I am as stongly against a tubal ligation as you are for it. I suspect we are total opposites on many issues and that is not unusual at all. People justify to themselves all sorts of things as well as berate others to remove looking at what the real issue they are burying is. You are the one to live with your choices and noone else. Just take the compliment that it is nice of you to bring up an issue that evidently is not well discussed among women until they go and seek answers to how they feel after they have a life altering surgery for whatever reason they chose to do so. I am not your enemy. And face it, you have more time to do anything you want is how you put it. Rock on.

        • Julie Was Here

          You are someone who sees misinformation and ignorance as a virtue. You are not only an enemy to women, but an enemy of reason as well.

        • openminded

          Very well said Susan could’nt agree more.

    • Julie Was Here

      By the way, it’s sad to see such disregard for evidence and integrity coming from an attorney, Ronnie O McMillin, I mean “Susan.”

      If you’re going to be a liar, you should be careful what you make public. Anyone who cares to do just a little bit of research can find the truth. I doubt that being exposed as a liar is great for the reputation of a lawyer.

  52. ValiantBlue

    An attorney that inarticulate and self-contradictory? A public defender, no doubt.

    • Julie Was Here

      Works/worked as assistant district attorney in Vidalia, Louisiana.

    • I explained clearly to you that you needed to consider both sides to discover if the syndrome is even real. I wonder if it is. I hope that it is not as it seems horrible. It would be horrible if it were offered to people as a good idea if it were not. You are a special case because you decided to go in and do the surgery without it being around a birth. And that would help any person willing to research the changes or no changes in the female body able to discern if it were from birth or the surgery, would it not? You may really be of help to others one day in all of this and you may be on to something really big when you speak of controls to see if it is real. But it truly is hard to discern some issues as all women are so different and some are more aware of symptoms than others and some are better at verbalizing them to others. Don’t be mad at someone trying to challenge you to think deeper on a passionate subject you are discussing. I did not mean to make you angry and am glad you know that I do not think of you in any unkind way as I do not know you. I could have let you just think that I was a person saying you were going to regret your decision but I really would not leave you thinking that as you are a person and that would be mean for anyone to leave that thought in a person’s mind. I guess I felt you were being negative to the women I veiwed as trying to warn you even if you did not need their information. I read several of those sites that have testimonials to see what seemed to go wrong in so many of the cases discussed. Just try not to beat up on the folks that surely could help give you insight when you write your book one day. They may stop writing on your blog and you could miss a real conclusion in your work. You could have not just a blog but a best seller. It could happen. “PTLS: Fact or Fiction” would be a nice title.

      • Julie Was Here

        Pointless. I clearly DID consider PTLS, and, based on evidence, made a judgment as it its plausibility. That what this whole post was. Have you still not read it? I mean, unless you were still playing dumb in a pervious comment, you evidently hadn’t even bothered to read the heading and date to see that I’d already had the procedure over a year ago.

        Don’t try to pretend anyone is mad at you simply for having a contrary opinion. You are rude, insulting, a liar, and a hypocrite. Not only that, you fan the flames of harmful medical myths. That considered, you do NOT get to pretend now that I am the mean one for not playing nice when you act in such an immature and irresponsible fashion.

        As for the other women, I am not obligated to do something so intellectually dishonest as to accept the personal anecdotes of an ignorant few as of the same value, let along greater value, as the mountains peer-reviewed scientific studies that utterly refute their claims. Women deserve the truth. The truth is that there is no such condition as PTLS recognized by the medical community, nor is there any evidence for the existence of any such condition.

        Those dishonest enough to promote PTLS are just as irresponsible as the hoaxer bitch who lied that the swine flu vaccine made her only capable of waking backwards, or the bitch who convinced ignorant breeders not to properly vaccinate their children for irrational fear of autism. And this misinformation is just as dangerous to anyone dumb enough to mindlessly believe it rather than doing the research. I shudder to think of how many women may have been hurt because some fear-mongering liar convinced her to to get the tubal she would have otherwise been happy to have.

  53. I think that women come to the conclusion that they have PTLS in one of two ways. The first is when their doctors are dismissive of the pain and other symptoms that they report and imply that it isn’t a real experience. They then start searching online and encounter stories of PTLS. What they really need is a new doctor: one who starts out trusting that they are telling the truth about their experiences, and starts looking for a medical explanation for what the women have experienced. I feel sorry for women in this situation, because they aren’t being served by their doctors or by what they find online.

    Then there are the women who are sure that they suffer from PTLS and are unwilling to consider any cause the doctor might propose. They are certain that they are not only the authorities on how they physically feel (as they should be), but also on the medical science which explains the symptoms (although they are clearly not experts in this field). They’re the ones with the loudest voices. People like this bother me, because what they say will influence other people when it really should not.

    The reason for that is a cognitive bias – availability heuristic. Personal stories strike people are more valid than aggregated statistics, and information which sticks in the mind is evaluated as more likely to be true. It’s the reason behind the oft-cited fact that people are more often afraid of flying than driving, although flying is safer. We aren’t always the most logical of creatures.

    That’s why I can’t respect someone who discounts the scientific method without understanding it. Yes, scientific opinion changes, and it could be that in the future existing studies finding no evidence of PTLS will be discredited. It’s not likely, but it could happen. If it does happen, scientists will look at the evidence, do more research, and reach new conclusions.

    …What will it take for people who think PTLS exists to change their minds? There is no evidence that could ever be enough, and that is why there is no point in arguing with them. They are not interested in accepting logic or rational thought, and will always try to appeal to emotions instead.

    • Julie Was Here

      I think you are right about that.

      I consider one more thing. It’s liaison possible the doctor does give them an explanation for their symptoms, and the women just refuse to accept it because they don’t like it. Many parents are inclined to deny that giving birth may have been a bad thing in any way.

    • openminded

      It would be interesting for you to feel what the many many of us women feel and go through on a daily basis and then tell us it is nothing or in our heads, you talk about listening to what the doctor tells you it is, what if they cant give you an answer, what then ?

      • Julie Was Here

        You’re wishing harm upon me? Classy. Well, if I developed a problem and no one could find an answer, I would have to give up on finding the real answer, make something up, blame something impossible with absolutely zero evidentiary support to go on, deny all evidence contrary to my claim (while calling myself “open-minded,” of course,) and go about the Internet spreading medical misinformation wherever I can. Oh wait, no, I wouldn’t do that because I’m honest, mature, and responsible. Ahem.

  54. Look, I wish you the best. I do not have time to write back anymore stuff and I meant “you as control” like if the magazine you talked about wanted to follow up with you later and you picked one of the ladies off your blog for them to also interview, it may get the discussion started on a larger scale as to whether it is feasible to do a more indepth and scientific study with a woman like you that is clearly very aware of her body and another woman who has actually gone through what you have but has also done so after the birth of a child. If you are done with whether the thing exists or not, then I am sorry I misunderstood. The most unlikely folks to bring things into the spotlight are often people someone else sees may be of use in furthering a discussion. You do not have to give up your position, but neither does whoever you choose to be your opposite if they ever ask you. It would just be fantastic if you could actually determine together whether PTLS exists or not. Would that be an insult to be asked to carry such a torch? Girl, you have already been carrying it for a while now. Research is fascinating if you enjoy it and it benefits everyone. And you are very right about it being a shame if there are folks making money off some new phantom disease. That is unprofessional and just plain wrong. I was fascinated with research in another area of women’s health some time back and pretty much held a discussion such as you are having now on your blog to see the many differing opinions out there. I found out all I needed to know about my topic, and was wiser for the information. I cannot say that I will be writing again as I do not have the time but carry on your discussion and if my comments have offended you as a whole, delete them and forget them. They were merely thought provoking and yet I feel that I only upset you. I am just a person and do not hold myself out to be perfect. That was not my intention.Truce?

  55. I’m a childfree-by-choice woman in my late 30s who was finally able to find a doctor willing to sterilize me last year. I didn’t have a tubal–I had Essure–but the mechanism of sterilization is similar to what you get with Filshie clips. The tubes are not severed, but they ARE blocked.

    After the hysterosalpingogram confirmed that my tubes were 100% blocked, yes, things changed for me. My periods got longer and slightly more irregular, cramping was more intense, and I began to experience mittelschmerz.

    But it wasn’t because of the Essure. It was because I’D GONE OFF THE PILL. All of my “symptoms” are simply a result of returning to my natural hormonal state. Nor are they particularly bothersome, particularly when weighed against the sweet relief of never having to worry about getting pregnant.

    It never even occurred to me to ask my doctor if anything was “wrong.” I knew life off the Pill would be different. How is it possible that these women who are complaining about “PTLS” know so little about their bodies and how they work?

  56. failedandcheated

    I had my tubal ligation done in 2006 and I experienced a few of the symptoms that some claim to be “PTLS” was that what I had who knows. However, I had the most ultimate betrayal of a tubal ligation to happen to me, I GOT PREGNANT!!!!! Six years and 4 days after my tubal ligation I was being treated for an ectopic pregnancy. Yes, now I am aware that I am at a higher risk of ectopic pregnancy because of my tubal but I certainly wasn’t warned of this prior to my surgery. Actually, my doctor asked me if I was sure about not wanting anymore kids because this was permanent and non-reversible before he straped on my mask and told me to count backwards starting at 10. I even joked telling him if I did come up preggers again I would sue him for child support. I mean I love the fact that you didn’t want to have kids and you made the adult decision to ensure you wouldn’t (hopefully) have any. I see far too many kids being born to worthless women who shouldn’t be allowed a goldfish let alone a child. But did you ever think about what would happen if you were to become pregnant and the additional stress it would cause. I’m so scared now that I don’t know to do. Two doses of methotrexate injections, doctors not giving me clear answers, & just flatout disgusted!!!! I hope nothing goes wrong with your tubal and cannot believe some of the things said towards your personal choice. I know this had nothing to do with your topic.

  57. Hi everyone!

    I usually don’t leave comments on the articles that I read but upon reading this post, I can’t stop myself from typing this comment.

    Anyways, I had a tubal ligation last October 8,2012. It was a whirlwind decision actually, because I only told my OB to do the procedure right before my c-section delivery. Luckily, my husband wasn’t hard to convince and he immediately signed the agreement on me getting a tubal ligation.

    Well, it’s been 6 weeks and I haven’t had any problems so far. And since I am already here, I want to ask you guys a question. During my last check up, my OB told me to take meds to stimulate my menstrual cycle. Now my question is, do I really need to take them? Wouldn’t it get back to normal if I don’t?

    Thanks in advance.

    • Julie Was Here

      Is your menstrual cycle irregular? I’m child-free, so I really can’t answer as to whether or not meds are required for menstrual irregularity after giving birth.

  58. It’s sad to see that you failed to empower women with your story, I am not sure why you even bothered to blog about it? Who cares why you wanted to to have TL, it’s your “choice”. Your mindless rambling about science has not proved what people claim to have happened to them, this must mean it could never happen! I guess you believe science doesn’t change at all? Funny thing is that science doesn’t back everything, there are still unexplain reasons why some things work for some people and not others. As for doctors, there is reason why they are called “Practicing medicine” But like you proclaim science is everything. For someone that is not even grateful to be in this world, why are you hear and blogging what you believe to be true and fact? If people disappoint you by their claims,that could never be because science does not back them, why not off the people that you believe are stupid? And please don’t even bother with the “MORALS” card, because it’s just a emotion, means nothing really. There is no “GOD” according to you, so there is no reason to have morals. Why not off all the stupid people, because science does not back that murder is wrong, that’s what man says is wrong. And if there is no”GOD” why do you even bother to follow the rules created by man inspired by the bible? THERE IS NO GOD! I believe a few comments up you said that you were US Solider, you must of became one for all it’s perks, because it can’t because you wanted to preserve human life, like you said we’re over populated anyways why even bother? Unless your trying preserve science? What’s the point in that? Don’t even bother on your sob story about your tour as US soldier, I just came off my third tour BFD. Please go ahead insult me, that’s seem to be only thing that your good at. Empowering women is not in your cards, I would say that you should keep on the track of insulting people because at this point that’s all you can do! It’s a women “CHOICE” to do whatever they want with their bodies, but you will not find empowerment on this page, this blogger has failed! Just rambling of science and theories. But I will give credit when credit is do, this kid can insult people :)

    • Julie Was Here

      You’ve made it very difficult to not insult you, for what you’ve said is completely moronic and the inly response is pointing that out. And why the fuck is “choice” (and other random words) in quotation marks? It’s not even necessary.

      Wow. There’s a lot of anti-intellectualism in your post.
      Instead of whining “blah blah blah, science changes,” who don’t you try actually changing it? If you make a positive claim (x exists,) the burden of proof is upon YOU.

      Let’s say that I claimed that the earth is flat. Not only do I have absolutely no evidence that the earth is flat nor a reasonable explanation as to how a flat planet could have possibly been formed, but you actually have overwhelming evidence that the earth is NOT flat. Are you really going to accept the excuse “science changes” and take my flat-earth claim seriously, even despite the evidence?

      What of I claimed that I saw Santa? A ghost? Bigfoot? How far do you take the practice of mindlessly believing nonsense? And if it is indeed far, if you really are so gullible, I’ve got an island condo in the tropics to sell you.

      Hmm… An island sounds like a good idea. Go be stupid somewhere else.

      Actually, laws predate the bible, or indeed any religion (and by the way, science is not a religion, moron.) In fact, morality even pre-dates humans. We can observe in social animals basic moral behavior. Rarely do lions kill other members of their own pride, nor wolves members of their own pack. This is especially obvious in primates. It does the group no benefit if they just randomly kill each-other, an they benefit instead from cooperation. Obviously, they sometimes break this rule, but so do humans (even, no, ESPECIALLY the Christian ones.) Social morals are evolved.

      But are you seriously telling me that, if not for the fear that your imaginary friend would punish you, you would run around murdering everyone? Thats pretty fucked up. Basically, you’re admitting that you have worse morals than you claim (senselessly) that I must have. Indeed, your morals are even lacking when compared to the animals like those I mentioned. What’s it like realizing that you’re less civilized than a baboon? Get help, psycho.

  59. That’s all you got? Really? I never said that religion had anything to do with science, hello moron! You have a imaginary friend? what? I don’t believe in GOD, morals are man made, we make them up everyday! Who cares about animals they’re worthless, kill them all they have no value!! You care so much about a animals and dress them up as if they had fur for no reason! Just another thing in this world over populating it ! Yes “Choice” a random work you use freely on “YOUR” blog. Are you slow? have you forgotten all BS you have written and I am a psycho? You can’t even answer a question, all you have is rambling about NOTHING blah blah blah!

    • Julie Was Here

      Ooh, I get it now. It’s so obvious now that I’m surprised I didn’t realize it before. Clearly, you’re retarded. I suppose I shouldn’t pick on the mentally handicapped. OK, well, just grunt at your attendant a bit and they’ll change your diaper for you and you’ll feel better.

  60. Awwww….again poor little baby has nothing great to say! another worthless person in world!

    • Julie Was Here

      And now you’re talking to yourself.

      Lol you’re not even a very good troll. You could at least be funny if you won’t be coherent.

  61. I would have to say Travis you have a valid point, this blogger rambles on and on about nothing, telling only half truths, and talking about nonsense! The fact is, this blogger likes to hear herself talk because she believe see needs to spread the word of her boring pathetic life! Like this blogger stated, she was forced into existence. However she is no longer forced to be here,but she is still here complaining about being forced to be here? I am sure shes knows there are many ways to no longer be here, so pick one already!

    The fact that she states she was never a speck in her mother’s womb, but by definition “I am a sentient” is only half truth. She’s right, she was not a speck. But also she was NOT sentient either. She was a parasite, invader, or fetus, whatever you want to call it. You See the parasite inside a mother’s womb is NOT individual, NOT living in the sence that is cannot live outside a mother’s womb, as well as it’s NOT sentient, meaning It is not aware of reality or life for that matter. So she is wrong.

    She also goes on and on about “my life, my body, my choice” She’s correct, but picked TL as if it is was 100%? Even her links that she has posted give failure rates for TL. A smart women would’ve have made it permanent 100% effective! And what I mean by that is, get rid of the uterus duh? We really only need the ovaries (for hormones) or you could take hormone treatments. Yes it is possible to have that removed without there being anything wrong with you, I walk around without one everyday!

    She also claims that her life was threatened by ones saying that they hope she gets PTLS. What? Like you said crack head PTLS does NOT exist. So, NO someone did not wish you harm for something that does not exist! You over exaggerated that comment. But goes to show you how childish this blogger is as she references fiction characters, like Santa, Bigfoot, trolls, or the tooth fairy, lets not forget her imaginary friend!

    Someone shot you and they missed your head? Why even write about it? Are really going to talk about gun control, when you’ve clearly expressed that you’ve been forced to be here. Human life has no value to you, don’t even bother to talk about gun control. Like you said, we are over populated. No need for gun control, hello stupid!

    Let’s not forget her blog about her stupid dog! It’s fucking dog who cares! Like Travis said, animals are worthless, no value! Just another dumb fucking animal! Or your 100 reason why you don’t want kids. The more gown-up approach would’ve been, I don’t like or want them, I am selfish THE END! Not rambling on and on about the samething over and over!

    The fact that this blogger, believes she’s funny by saying random stupid shit when she has been defeated, makes me laugh that someone so fucking stupid is complaining about be here!

    • Julie Was Here

      You’re a bit of an idiot aren’t you?

      1. Indeed, a fetus is nothing more than a mindless parasite. I never claimed otherwise. Meanwhile, I am, by definition if being a person, a sentient being. I was therefore never more a fetus than I ever was a spermatozoa.

      2. The failure rate of a tubal ligation is low enough to be negligible, but in the event of failure, there is always abortion. I figure that gives me a well enough 100% success rate. In I distance in a hysterectomy only demonstrates your proud ignorance of the workings of the human body, particularly those of the endocrine system. I’ll give you a hint: a uterus does far more than just gestate embryos. You’ve also proudly ignored the inherent risks involved in an abdominal surgery far more invasive than a tubal.

      3. It doesn’t matter if a threat is credible for it to still be a threat. If I said that I hope you get hit by a truck going 300 miles per hour, it is of no consequence that trucks can not actually travel that fast (except maybe in free fall,) that is still wishing harm upon you, fool.

      4. I have no imaginary friend. Maybe you need to find an adult to help you read. I mentioned Bigfoot, Santa, etc to demonstrate exactly what category I place the god that other people have senselessly brought up in their defense – fiction.

      5. I have no value for life? That’s interesting coming from the same troll who keeps suggesting that I should kill myself or sit back an let others die easily preventable deaths. Where do you even get that anyway? Besides your ass, I mean. Thats quite the leap in judgement to make. Do you enjoy making shit up? Does it make you feel better about yourself?

      6. My dog is worth far more than you are. She’s certainly a lot smarter. You keep complaining about what I write saying “who cares,” but it seems that you do. You’ve obviously spent some deal of time thumbing through my posts (even if your reading comprehension is lacking.) That’s not the behavior of someone who truly does not care. If you didn’t care, you wouldn’t be here at all. You seem to have a somewhat creepy obsession with me, I’d say. Poor insecure little troll. Do see a shrink about your issues.

      7. Perhaps you are indeed selfish. You’ve demonstrated a great many other character flaws in your insane little rant here, so that would not surprise me in the least. But do speak for yourself.

      Either say something relevant or fuck off, you lifeless loser.

  62. Unfortunately, your particular blog was my assignment. We thought it would be great and have value. But the sad truth, it does not! Again only half truths nothing more the rambling on about stupid shit that you do not understand fully!

    Also you are really no different then people that have children, accept you prefer the furry kind, but just as useless. You load video’s and talk about her because believe she worth something in your fairytale world.

    Am I smater then your dog? of course! I have the freedom to do or say what I want, your dog does not. She’s just a dog, taking orders from you. She is not free, she’s held hostage! She does think on her own, no different then a caged animal. So anything that takes orders from someone else and does not think for themselves is worthless!

    TROLL, just another fairytale or fiction character. Or Internet slang for the unintelligent to use.

    Yes, unintelligent, for someone who will never have children, but claims she knows how one should parent, is a retard! No different then someone claiming to have lived your life! Really, you weren’t intelligent enough to know that you needed close the bathroom door? What the fuck was the reason for doors then? You being a sentient being and all, should’ve already figured that out!

    I could go on, however intelligence you lack! Your words have no value, and mindless rants about shit you don’t understand! Just a loser with nothing to say!

    • Julie Was Here

      There is no half truth anywhere in this blog. You have yet to point out a single falsehood or dishonest omission. I’m beginning to think you don’t understand what that term even means.

      I repeat, my dog is worth far more to me than you are. Hell, a ham sandwich is worth more to me than you are. You are an especially disturbed individual if the fact that some people have pets bothers you.

      Troll is indeed Internet slang, and it applies to you. You have said nothing that is of any relevance at all to the post you are commenting on nor any other post. You are not contributing to discussion in any way. Your comment is completely senseless and serves no purpose but to get a response. You’re an attention-seeker. I can see that I’m “feeding the troll” as it is, by giving you that attention. But, well, you’re just a bit of entertainment for me.

      There’s that reading comprehension failure again. Are you sure your kindergarten class assigned you to read this blog? I think The Cat in the Hat is more on your level. I know all about doors. I was the one saying that simply closing them was the obvious solution. Lol wow. You are so pathetic. Dude, you can not insult me by agreeing with me, saying exactly what I said and pretending it was not so. It doesn’t work.

      Yeah, anyone reading this knows who really lacks intelligence. You could see for yourself, had you a mirror. You’re more than just a barely-literate moron, however, you’re absolutely nuts. You need psychological help for you issues. You have all the standard mental flaws that I’ve seen effect the typical troll, but being threatened by the fact that some people have pets is just a new level of pathetic.

      I said you were my entertainment, but you’ve gotten predictable and boring. That, and you’ve dragged the comments section of this post far off course. Your next comment, should there be one at all, had better relate to the topic at hand and contain valid arguments with citation as if you were writing a persuasive essay or a research paper (that’s probably far above your abilities.) If you fail to do that, if it’s just too much for your feeble mind to manage, then you will find yourself no longer allowed to comment here. Those are your ONLY options. I eagerly await your silence.

  63. One big mistake in medicine is doctor’s who think they know everything. No one does. My pharmacology professor once said if you think you know everything in medical science, then you must keep learning. These women know something is wrong with their reproductive organs. They have an on going dialogue with their bodies. They’re listening to an intuition. I as a matter of fact have ptls from essure/ablation. Confirmed by my on/GYN. The words came out of her mouth before I even knew what it was. Read WOMEN’S BODIES, WOMEN’S WISDOM , by Dr. Christiane Northrup, MD. She discusses its controversy. Its just not everyone in the profession agrees. I’ll be having a partial hysterectomy soon to resolve this. Get to keep my ovaries and cervix. Basically when tubes are plugged or tied and burned some changes need to happen. Even if your uterus is ablated, there will be some blood/ drainage that seeps from the tubes. The fluid can’t drain the usual way so it usually drains out the other end. Your absorbes this. In some cases however it doesn’t drain the other way. It will pool and clot up creating misery. I now have a dried up clot sitting in my uterus. My essure ablation was 2 yrs ago and the symptoms started Jan of 2012. I checked out just fine post up in the 3 month follow up. This all developed after procedure. I’ve had many of the common complaints and at this point I’m miserable. I’m ready alright. Don’t say this is bullshit. We can’t go condeming a matter of medical science that still needs research. We can’t do that. That shit is for the dark ages. Think about all the microcosm the world didn’t know about then. I wonder what women were told about their bodies. Seems like you needed to validate it for yourself.

    • Julie Was Here

      Yeah, I mean what do doctor’s know about medicine, right? Pffft. No, I’ll take the word of some Uneducated nobodys diagnosing themselves using Yahoo Answers. That just sounds sooo reliable. And who cares if no research on the subject supports their claims, but all research contradicts them? Someone said it on the Internet, so it must be true.

      How do you figure you have post tubal ligation syndrome when you didn’t even have a tubal ligation? Here’s a hint: ESSURE IS NOT THE SAME THING! It’s a completely different procedure with completely different methods and effects. It’s not the same an it doesn’t work the same. To pretend that they are is fucking stupid. An ablation isn’t a tubal either, and I’m betting if you had that done, you already had problems.

      Get a clue. Until research confirms your claim, rather that refuting it as all previous research has done, you are being shamefully dishonest when you promote the medical myth of PTLS. Until you can show it, you don’t know it and should not pretend that you do. The burden of proof lies on the the making the claim. That’s how the scientific method works. That’s was brought us OUT of the dark ages. It’s how we discovered that illnesses were caused by germs, not demons that people swore up and down that they were sure were the cause of their affliction (and even claimed to see.) it seems you have failed to learn the lesson history has shown in regards to medical science.

      Oh, but do please tell me, the one basing judgements on demonstrable facts and the ability to back it all up that I’M the one trying to validate myself (to who and for what purpose? That doesn’t even make any sense.) You aren’t fooling anyone.

      Science. It works, bitches. And I’ll take it over the anecdotes of someone who self-diagnoses with a mythical condition that is supposedly cause by a procedure that she did not even have.

      Here is how science works. You bring some proof of your claims (do some research yourself instead of just insisting that research should be done and ignoring all the research that already has been done that you don’t agree with.) If you prove that PTLS is real then I will change my tune on a dime, and I’ll even be happy to be corrected. However, all the evidence is against you. If you were honest, if you actually cares about being scientific, then you are the one who should be happy for the correction right now.

      Oh, but go ahead. Remain as you are. You may as well blame demons, while you’re at it.

      • I just have to say…I have had several DR’s ( both in and out of office visits- both my personal DR’s and family friend’s who ARE DR’s) admit to me they use GOOGLE on a regular basis for DX people…So yea someone CAN *possibly* get some answers on yahoo if someone posted and sighted the proper study/information etc- IN fact, I DX myself (then later, finally confirmed with a DR visit and tests) with a auto immune issue that was attacking my pregnancies causing me to miscarry over 10+ times, by finding a woman online who had a situation similar to me, who also was experiencing the same problems…I had been seeing several specialists by then….NO one ever could tell what was wrong…After 15 thousand in “all the testing they could offer” for over a year and a half, m/c after m/c, seeing DR’s in the BEST hospitals – NO one could tell me why, till I met this lady- and got in touch with HER DR, who was finally able to help me and give me answers, that NO other DR could…My other specialists now are starting to study and look into reproductive immunology, and even admitted to me, they were wrong about my case, and that something, people just don’t fit in “normal” medical box… (just playing devil advocate here…) ……AND just to add- I have, on several occasions ( in different states, with different DR’s years apart) had a DR give me the wrong kind of RX or RX something to me in pregnancy that was VERY dangerous, one was a antibiotic, one was Xanex (I was baffled as this DR tried to OK this in my pregnancy as it is a category X, and I was crazed that *I* knew that and they did not- they clearly knew I was preg- and was NOT having anxiety-and it was not a case of benefit over risk) and some other crazy anti viral drug, anyway, what I am saying is, even DR’s are NOT perfect, they can make some life altering mistakes to people, both by medication, wrong DX, bad surgery etc…..Also, the people who do medical studies are NOT perfect or exempt from error, and science is NOT fool proof- too many things have changed as the years go on as we get more and more educated. Scientists will tell you, they still have yet to uncover a LOT about how the human body operates, and until a formal, very thorough study has been done SOLELY with the intention to either prove or rule out weather issues after a ligation exist or not (the ones out there now were NOT created for that reason, they were created to look at failure rates etc the other’s were too small and had many scientific flaws if you look into it deeper-) and there fore are not valid enough in MY opinion to rule it out…I think both listening to your own body/intuition/ being your own advocate AND having a good quality medical professional is KEY to avoid having any kind of mishaps like this-

        • Julie Was Here


          • openminded

            That is very rude, you seem to me a very sad bitter person, why are you even on here when all you seem to do if refute what other people experience. Bitter angry person and probably not very nice either. Get a life.

            • Julie Was Here

              Why??the comment didn’t have jack shit to do with anything. Therefore, it’s irrelevant.

  64. Here’s a seperate example of another controversey. Medical marijuana. More and more people use this as medication including myself. Why aren’t there enough studies? Federal gov will delay. Dea needs a job. Fda can’t do shit cause you can’t patent a plant. Supreme court has issued statements in support of pot. It’s all politics. More studies are coming, but big pharma and alcohol lobbyist will do their best to raise hell. Legit, synthetic heroin and booze are big bucks. Oh and let’s not forget religion. Synthetic thc is not the same or as beneficial as the real deal. Doctors all have difference of opinion, and people still use it daily cause they know it’s better for them. As far as I’m concerned we’re living in prohibition. Mitt Romney would take it away from the sick and dying if he could. Why? I’m convinced it’s his religion. His wife has MS. What’s going to happen when her meds fail her? I’m a panthiest, a secular humanist. I don’t believe i karma, but I believe in law of attraction. There’s always big unknowns in science and to assume when nothing is conclusive is a fallacy.

    • Julie Was Here

      There have been numerous studies on marijuana. The medical benefits have been known for decades, and so has the fact that it’s no more dangerous than smoking cigarettes. However, marijuana is banned in many places because some know-nothing’s who cared nothing for the findings of medical science decided on their own to pretend that marijuana was dangerous and went on promoting that lie. Boy, that sure sounds familiar. Here’s a hint, get a mirror.

      You are the one with no science on your side. You are the one denying the research that has been done. You are the one making assumptions without basis (indeed, a fallacy, as you call it.) You are the one spreading dangerous lies. And who knows how many women will suffer because of your myth?

      • Yes, as I said politics, and religion have set that course. Propaganda as well. However you’ll still find it highly debatable among doctors despite evidence. Even pain management. Currently patients with combat ptsd in the state of AZ can’t recieve mmj because the state board of health rejected their pleas based on the fact there are no solid studies to back their claims. Vets who medIcate for other qualIfyIng condItIons wIth ptsd, have testIfIed to the state they’re now lIvIng wIth normalcy for once despIte lack of scIentIfIc proof. They spoke on behalf of those wIth ptsd who have no other qualifying conditions who need it now. Nevermind that a daily cocktail of amphetamines, antidepressants, and benzodiazepines have a combined low efficacy rate or one suIcIde a day. There are no studies. So in essence aren’t these vets self medicating with no scientific proof? Before I mentioned mmj, the original point was whether post tubal ligation syndrome exists. Where’s the post? I stated it indeed does exist. I have it as validated by my GYN and transvaginal ultrasound. Its called retro and cyclical blood and drainage getting backed up into blocked tubes. Its a rare form of the syndrome , but it exist. There simply isn’t enough evidence to conclude why so many other woman are having issues post tubal. Even in their late 20′s. The purpose of this discussion was to point out the many loop holes in science itself.

      • Instead of ” loopholes”, the unverified in science.

  65. openminded

    Erika, i definately feel like mine is a blood issue, even though I have nearly every symptom on that list, for me it is like my blood is vey thick & slow and my whole body is on slow mode now, as it has been 13 years for me and I have only come across PTLS in the last couple of months, before then I have been on an endless journey looking for an answer that still hasnt come, because they dont belive in PTLS. As I am getting older though just before my period its like my body is swelling with blood and it makes me very sick its so hard to explain but they tell you while you are sitting there shaking asking them why do I feel like this, your ok nothing is wrong, you know darn well there is. Any woman in the world will tell you the standard line of treatment is, anti-depressants, mirena, an ablation or hysterectomy. I have been looking up the long term side effects of castration, the men have similar symptoms, which says to me its a type of castration to us separating us from our ovaries, its not meant to do that. I am also wondering, not sure how to say it but how many young dads are commiting suicide out of depression after a vasectomy, I do know of a few young dads who commited suicide, family reported no problems, did they have a vasectomy, as I know it causes me to be depressed. My point being men or women our reproductive system has a bigger impact on our well being than I believe doctors attribute, its our body, mind and spirit, after all we were made to create life, in saying that I am not saying anything to people who choose not to have children, I just mean the impact of interfering and chopping up our reproductive system must cause some side effects because it is the centre of our being and why we are here, that is my belief anyway. When I made my decision to have a TL (not only was it the biggest mistake), it was out of duress.

    • Julie Was Here

      The point is you wanted an answer so you arbitrarily made something up without having any rational basis to backup your conclusion.

      See a rainbow? Too primitive to figure out what causes it? God must have done it, evidence be damned.

      Sterilization is NOT the same as castration. Your ovaries are not cut off. They’re still just as connected to your bloodstream as they ever were. They’re therefore just as healthy and just as involved in the endocrine system. All you’ve done is sever/block a connecting tube to the uterus which did NOTHING but serve as a channel for an egg to travel. That’s it. It’s not fucking magic and yours is not fucking special.

      Reproductive organs are not who you are. We are not made to create life. Keep your sexist, breeder-worshipping bullshit to yourself. It has no place here.

      You, with your qualifications of absofuckinglutely nothing ( I mean for fuck’s sake, you evidently dont even understand what castration is,) want to say that you know more about the functions of reproductive organs than doctors? Then you’d damned well better be able to explain and prove this.

      Quit making shit up. Come back with verifiable evidence or not at all.

      • openminded

        Well Julie i guess thats is where every womans body is different and reacts different, like medications, if we all were the same we could all take the same medication without side effects. If tubal ligations were so “safe” how come the statistics are that women who have had a tubal ligation are at more risk of having to have a hysterectomy later on, are at higher risk of premature death and heart disease. Did you read those statistics, or did you conveniently miss those ones. I know if I had known that when I was being consulted about a TL i definately would not have had one. Stop being so up yourself and realise we are all made to create life, its then our choice to have or not have children, we are all made as individuals, all different.If you were’nt so anti everything except yourself you would see maybe some people do infact have problems, when you dont know each person individually you cant even begin to say yes or no, you cant tell me you are that naive to think that doctors are not motivated by money or the fear of litigation if they admit they may have made a mistake, if there is nothing at all to this then why has it been a topic of discussion amongst doctors since the 1950′s. Just because someone says it isn’t so dosent mean that they are right. As far as the castrastion thing if you read the side effects there are similar side effects, yes I know what castration means, but as every woman knows her body and how it works, (some of us are older than others and have more experience), we also know when something is wrong, its like doctors are now more inclined to listen to women about their children, it is because they spend everyday with that child and know when they are not well. Some doctors are admitting they dont knkow the true connection between a womans uterus, ovaries and her brain, isn’t “pregnancy brain” now a proven medical fact. You are a person who is bitter, hateful and somewhere down the track has been hurt pretty bad by someone to have the opinions you have in such a brutal way. You need to look at yourself. Instead of being so anti PTLS, (and I said from the start I dont think I would actually call it a syndrome myself more adverse side effects to an operation that causes severe in some cases health problems especially in the long term.) open mindedly ask the questions “why can’t a tubal ligation cause hormonal imbalances”. I said before I am no doctor, I dont knkow if it is hormones but everthing that I have been and still am experiencing is debilitating, doctors can give me no answers all my tests come back clear but my life is still in turmoil, my question is ‘if they cant tell me what it is how can they tell me what its not, its not imaginary as im now developing blood clots and they cant tell me why. problems from tubal ligations exist and in the very near future it will be public knkowledge and doctors will say we have new evidence, (even though they have had it all along, oh another statistic, with the new keyhole procedure for TL it is reported that more women are in fact having trouble and side effects than befrore with the old open up surgery. Check it all if you dont believe me. It is just one of those things where some women have no problems at all and some just do anf there is no way of telling who will and who wont. Just for your information i was not on any form of birth control before my TL and I was super fit and exercising regularly, all of which has been taken away from me ever since my TL, i also had a child after my TL another thing they tel you is impossible, just tells me doctors dont know everything, which I knew anyway.

        • Julie Was Here

          Your body is not so different that your Fallopian tubes perform some function that no one else’s do, which you need but no one else does. Sorry, snowflake, youre not that special.

          • openminded

            You are not even reading what I am saying, if you actually do total research not just the stuff that suits your purpose you will see other reports from doctors talking about fallopoian tubes, neither you or a doctor actually live inside a fallopian tube as it is functioning so you can never really know the full function. You just cnat admit that everyone is dfferent and we all react differently to different situatiuons can you.

            • Julie Was Here

              Actually, my Fallopian tubes are NOT functioning. I had a tubal ligation, so my Fallopian tube is no longer doing the one and only thing Fallopian tubes ever do, transfer eggs from ovaries to the uterus. It turns out that’s not a vital function.

              By the way, I’m amused beyond description at your accusation that I’m the one lacking objectivity. Oh, the irony. One one one producing facts and studies. I’m the one able to actually back up my claims. What have you got? Nothing.

      • openminded

        One thing I forgot to add i never said I knew more than doctors ever, i believe their motives are different, and I said ‘attribute’, if you know what that means as im sure you do with all you big fancy words you use you would know im not saying i know more, but i will say i do know more how my body works than a doctor, they do not live inside me, they can not feel what is going on.

        • Julie Was Here

          You DON’T know more about your body than a doctor. If you don’t believe that, go talk to one about neurology, the endocrine system, your skeletal structure, and so on. You’ll be schooled.

          • openminded

            You dont know anything about me YOU dont know as much as you think you do and you have n o idea of my education

          • openminded

            Again you are not really reading what I am saying, truth is you dont have an answer for it, and the WHOLE truth is God is the creator and no doctor can ever know everything about the human body deal with it.

      • openminded

        Julie one thing I want to ask, i know you say ‘im not discussing why im childfree etc etc”, but for someone who is child free and so “happy” about it why do you make up so many rules, and who are you to impose rules on other people, if you dont like kids stay away from where kids are, they are people too and as someone else said to you you were a kid once yourself, what i see from all your hate is someone in denial. As for my other posts if you actually knew me you would know that I dont just make things up, I have been doing alot of research and reading as it has been a long time for me with the doctors diagnosing all of my symptoms, due to this is where my facts have been coming from. Also alot of peoples personal accounts, even the ones about castration.

        • Julie Was Here

          1. Re: childfree. What the fuck are you taking about.
          2. You haven’t done a minute of honest research. That much is abundantly obvious.

          • openminded

            About the childfree thing, you know exactly what I am talking about, a person who makes so many complaints about something usually wants what they cant have, you are in no way a better person to talk about raising a child than a parent, there are things only parents know, even nurses that work all their life in a nursery, if they have no children of their own, have no idea what it is to really be a parent, only a parent has that connection with a child, they share or feel their pain, sorrow, fear etc, if you have adopted, given birth or how ever you became a parent you have an understanding that no childfree person will ever have so that takes your right to judge, away, right there. You can make out you know it all, that you’ve travelled the world whatever, but you have not given birth, you DO NOT have a child you do not have the RIGHT to judge, even me who has not had a sick child will never know the true anguish a parent goes through watching their child suffer or having to lay them to rest, I could imagine, but it is still never the same. So how you could assume to even know anything truely is beyond me. Unless you are calling yourself a god, you seem to think you have the answer to everything. So back to the childfree thing, you want it but are scared you cant have it or couldnt cope with it, because, yes it is the hardest job in the world if you put your whole heart into it as a real parent does, with the right education parents could do any job in the world. You seem to sit back here spend you life on the keyboard pointing out everyone elses short comings.

            • Julie Was Here

              Seeing as how this post has little to do with being childfree, you fail right out of the starting gate for irrelavence. Ad hom.

              Secondly, there is not a damned thing parents have special, advanced knowledge of over the level of any trained professional, be they doctor, educator, psychologist, or day-care worker. And then there’s something to be said for common sense. You’re not special. Parents are not special. I jolly well do have the right to judge anyone, should they deserve it, regardless of whether or not they’ve shot a baby out their vag. But I’ll bite, is this in response to anything in particular?

              Also, go fuck yourself. Taking a shot of cum and then keeping the results alive is not even a job, let alone the hardest one. That’s just shit underachieving breeders say to make themselves feel special about their conformity, mediocrity, an the tediousness of their existence, or to feel like their underachieving asses have done something worthwhile. Parents deserving of the title have no need for such nonsense. I had a job that was actually hard, something I doubt someone like you would even know anything about. I’m not impressed by any “job” that anyone can do while watching TV.

              With the right education, anyone could do any job in the world. Parents aren’t fucking special.

              Go sniff some diapers.

              • openminded

                I never said parents were “special”, I just said unless you are a parent you never truely know what a parent is. If you think all your crude talk offends people think again, it just shows you true ignorance. “You had” a hard job, couldnt hack it any more, its ok we all know you couldnt hack it being a parent either. I cant believe how much of a sad little person you are.

              • Julie Was Here

                Patents aren’t mystical unicorns or wise, wandering wizards. There isn’t a damned thing that they have special, privileged knowledge of. Not one damned thing.

                I could t hack it? Bitch, I served my contract even AFTER being injured. When did you join the military and go to war? You don’t know what a hard job is of you think rattling some keys at a baby even compares.

                But yeah, keep pretending that I’m the sad and bitter one while you throw a complete tantrum over your inability to back up your own arguments. Maybe if you project enough, you’ll feel better about yourself. Get help.

  66. openminded

    May i say well done Travis and Nikki, I agree she seems to just love to belittle other people and ramble rubbish, if she thinks she offends with her language, Julie you dont, it really dosent matter, here in Australia we have a term for people like you it is called, “keyboard warrior”, both Travis and Nikki made more sense in their comments than all you ramblings and “big” words. Julie stop looking in the mirror at your hate and have a little compassion for people, eat some sweets you need to lose some of the bitterness.

    • Julie Was Here

      I ramble? Lol how fucking retarded are you? I only reply to your dumbass comments. Oh, and I do so with FACTS to back me up.

      Here in the US, we’ve got a word for you: delusional.

      Your comments are becoming less and less relevant. Either back up what you say with hard facts or go cry somewhere else that no one buys your bullshit.

      • openminded

        Well i dont know, how retarded do you think I am. My comments are only dumbass because you think they are. But are they really dumbass comments. What was “so hard” about your job that a parent couldnt do ?

        • Julie Was Here

          No, your comments are stupid. You do nothing but blather on and on about imaginary things as if that somehow invalidates scientific findings. That’s just stupid.

          People who happened to be parents did do my job, I never said otherwise. It’s just that doing the job didn’t have jack shit to do with being a parent, and, arguably, they would have been better at that particular job were they not parents.

          • openminded

            Im am being more serious now, being a parent does change your perspective on things, talking about jobs, like being a parent you think more about others than your self and how your safety affects your family, depending on the risk of the job etc. As far as science, doctors and science have done amazing things things and made amazing discoveries and advances, all in essence of what I am saying is that they don’t have all the answers and as long as time is or may be, they will never know everything. Im sure you know yourself, as other people have said they change their mind (science) on everything all the time, either they had it wrong, or a better way to do something, I am a christian, ashamed to say I am not a practicing christian, but I do believe in God, I dont push my views on people, I can express my views that dosent mean im pushing it onto people, the reason I’m saying that is, I believe there are so many new “conditions” because of the drugs etc that are being given now, preservatives in our foods etc, kids with ADD etc, you say bad behaviour, yes there are those out there but there are also kids that have problems due to the “science advances” in food preserving, drug advances that make kids sick, I have 5 boys, oldest 24 youngest 12, youngest born after my TL ( whom I did not have enough milk to feed, and is the only one with eczema), when my eldest was young it took me a couple of times to realise, but every now and again we would have Macdonalds you could almost watch it like a switch, he would be a normal child, eat a happy meal and turn into a little terror. I when my kids were to young always gave them lots of fruit and vegetables, they would take raw capsicum and strawberries etc to kinda, I made sure they had a good start, but even now they are saying the chemicals and pestacides they use to protect our foods are also killing us. So who can win. As far as parenting I dont know it all, but I do know I gave birth to my children so it was my job to raise them not go to work and put them in day care, again my choice, I did and do parent my kids I like to think they can talk to me about anything, i have been with my kids 24/7 except for school etc.I am not trying to say I am good because I dont think I am I have made many and some terrible mistakes all I am saying is I love my kids and would do anything for them and have tried to, and as far as the PTLS thing my life changed after having my TL and all I know is that it has taken my life virtually, we would spend every weekend either playing basketball, riding bikes or doing some exercise with the boys, I was very sick and even still now dont have the energy to play with my kids it stole that from us, it has frustrated me for years, I have consulted my doctor for years with no answers, as I said before if they can’t tell me what it is how can they say what it is not without proof, I do feel like my life is going to have an early end because of the physical strain in trying to just live everyday. Im not looking for sympathy just an answer and some help to live a full life. Anyway after my rambling the point I was trying to make was, science dosent have all the answers even though they have done some amazing things.
            As soon as I find that link again I will give it to you.

            • Are breeders totally incapable of using paragraphs?

              • Julie Was Here

                That’s not the only thing they’re incapable of using, evidently.

            • Julie Was Here

              That’s absolute and total breeder-worshipping bullshit. Breeding doesn’t make anyone any smarter, more considerate, or more responsible. In fact, I often seethe complete opposite. Get over yourself.

              If you want to say that the current understanding is wrong, it’s up to you to PROVE IT, not go making shit up while making appeals to your imaginary friend. You’re the only one here pretending to know shot you can’t back up with evidence.

              And of course you believe in god. Why not? You obviously care nothing for reality, preferring your delusions instead. When are you ever going to grow up? Get real.

              You may be looking for answers, but it’s clear that you don’t give a shit about getting truthful ones. Don’t worry yourself about how light works, just believe that rainbows are promises from god. Don’t worry yourself about electricity, lightning is the doing of Thor. Finding real answers or admitting that you don’t have the means of finding real answers is hard, so just make something up.

              Your last comment was more tedious than those previous. Not only do you still lack one shred of evidence to back up your claim, but you can’t even stay on topic (I don’t give two shits about your spawn eat, or your refusal to actually work to feed them.) Funny how it’s always only those who breed to claim problems. I guess admitting to the well-documented long-term health risks of breeding is too much for some fragile egos.

              • openminded

                I did actually think for a moment you were a human being, my mistake, good luck with your place in hell, you seem to be so well versed in everything, you will know all about that as well. Cold hearted unreasonable person. If you can’t find the evidence yourself about TL & you never will because your just shut off too bad. I am done because honestly some people just are not worth the time.

              • Julie Was Here

                Hell isn’t real either. I’m not nearly gullible enough to act as it it is. That, like everything else, is something that it falls upon you to prove is real in order to be taken seriously on the matter.

                You’re the one denying evidence. I’ve been the only one here who ever had any to present. All you’ve brought to the table is make-believe.

      • openminded

        By the way i noticed you ignored my FACTS about the statistics of TL’s, how women who have had TL’s are more likely to have hysterectomies later in life, how they are more at risk of premature death and heart disease, hoe come these statistics exist is a TL is trouble free with no complications. Answer me that. You CAN NOT make me cry, ever.

        • Julie Was Here

          Fact? Where is your SOURCE? And where is your proof that this is causative? (people with hereditary illnesses may be more likely to seek sterilization.)

  67. Nothing new here. The religious are behaving morally superior and the atheist is acting intellectually superior. Doctors will deny a condition exists to avoid lawsuits, as easily as pharmaceutical companies will invent conditions and disorders to sell drugs. Science gets distorted and cornholed in the process to suit any cause. I am having my second child, and last. I don’t view children as parasites and screaming things stuck to my tits that I resent, nor do I believe them the be all end all of a woman’s reason and existence. Look Julie, I can hold a baby and a book! …And it isn’t even a bible. I was considering having this procedure done, actually, I did not mention it… it was offered by my doctor. I’ve decided against it. There is money in both doing the procedure and in undoing the procedure. I believe neither proponents give a holy or unholy rats ass about my potential suffering. Yay choices! Good day. I SAID GOOD DAY!

    • Julie Was Here

      I’m not acting at all.

      As for scientific study, it’s always subject to peer-review, which is a brutal meritocracy. You may as well drop your conspiracy theory.

      And if your doctor is concerned about money, he’d have you breed as much as possible. THAT is where the money is. I suppose his next biggest source of recurring income will be from prescribing birth control.

  68. Yes, you are acting. Actual intellectuals don’t need to pathetically overstate it all over their blogs..and if anything is a conspiracy it’s your hilarious hurling of the whole anti intellectual accusations. Right on par with the other side shouting about how you and yours are declaring a war on Christmas. Equally ridiculous. You from your pulpit in Whole Foods are no less eye rollingly annoying than them on their scooters in Wal-Mart.

    There’s more than one way to skin a cat Julie, doctors encouraging breeding is one way…but that is inevitable, people will always pop them out. No need to sell sand in the desert. However when you have a woman over 35 who is unlikely to conceive anymore children, then suggesting a tubal would in fact get you forked over extra money from the insurance company as does encouraging unnecessary C-sections. Both of them performed together get dramatically more pay out than a vaginal birth and a doggy bag of condoms for the way out. Science is fantastic, I’m a fan…but your faith is far too naively concrete, the cracks you’re overlooking are motive and money.

    I’m glad you’ve experienced no side effects from the procedure…you’ve clearly got youth on your side. As for me, my circumstances and age….your cocky absolutes are uninspiring. Different people experience different side effects, and quite often the medical community cannot even draw the proper correlation to figure out why. I think you should put your money where your mouth is and volunteer to do trials on all the great medicines/procedures science is developing these days, super trustworthy if you like curing diabetes with perforated bowels and heart attacks. Did you ever get a little depressed about the war Julie? I know your doctor has a cure for that ill ..about a million anti-depressants to swallow, they’re not quite sure how it works entirely, you may just become a zombie… but then again, all the better. Doctors don’t give half the fucks you think.

    • Julie Was Here

      Ooooh, I get it now. You’re crazy.

      The fact that I tell the truth and am able to back it up with peer-reviewed studies means I’m lying? So if I knew the truth, I would keep it to myself and let lies go on unchallenged? Why? How does that even begin to make any kind of sense?

      Guess what? There is no conspiracy. When doctors recommend procedures to their patients, they’re doing it because they’re doctors and they know what the fuck they’re talking about. If a doctor did not bring up tubal ligation to a woman who says she wants no more children, he’d have to be a pretty shitty and unhelpful doctor.

      And tubal ligation is not comparable to some new, experimental procedure for any disease or psychological issue. It’s neither new nor a treatment for a harmful condition. And it HAS been through trials and extensive study. You know what has consistently been shown? It’s safe. The only side-effects are those that are risks with any other abdominal surgery and use of anesthesia. That’s science. Maybe you should stop shouting that you love science and more time learning what that word actually means.

      By the way, there is no “war on Christmas,” and I fail to see what grocery stores have to do with anything. Seriously, take your meds.

  69. ValiantBlue

    Who the hell left the gates open on the asylums a couple weeks ago? Clinical insanity is defined as the inability to distiguish fantasy from reality, which is increasingly becoming the norm and manifesting profusely on this post lately.

    By the by, trying to shame someone for using “big, fancy words” is not a compelling argument to your own intellectual resolve. It makes you look even more apparently frustrated in your insecurities.

  70. Hi, I’m a woman suffering from PTLS. I read and fully respect what you’ve posted but I still believe that what I have is PTLS. I had my tubes tied at 22yrs old after having my third child (doing my part not to be a welfare case with ten kids), and have suffered from depression, anxiety, insomnia and menstrual cramping that is much worse than before my tubal ligation since. I suffered from all of this for nearly 6 years before even knowing what to call what I had. That being said, I would love to throw out to the general community something that irritates me about PTLS and the lack of information one can find on the subject. I have been doing a LOT of research on PTLS and have only found 15 to 20 sites that explain what most women think PTLS is. None of these sites with the exclusion of one are medically based. However, I have found literally hundreds of women who experience many of the symptoms commonly associated with PTLS. So my irritation is this, with SOOO many women complaining of PTLS and symptoms closely related to them, why is there no medical information available about studies being done to truly find out if there is a connection? The only studies that I have found, was a very poorly funded one back in the 70′s and bs statistics on fertility clinic websites. I find it mind boggling that the medical community wont at least look into this. I know and understand what you say when all of the medical professionals you’ve talked to say that PTLS is not real, but I’m going to tell you that something in my body doesn’t work like it is supposed to since having my tubal ligation, and it resulted in what some could consider pre-menapausal symptomsat 22, 23, 24, 25, 26 and now 27 years old. That isn’t right. It isn’t like that for any of the women in my family and there isn’t a doctor who will even listen to me other than to say that I’m depressed, to stressed out, and need a different anti depressant than the one I’m already on.

    Ok, I’m done now. I am very curious though if you don’t mind sharing. Have you experienced any of the symptoms of PTLS since your TL? Of all of the women I have heard from on PTLS none of them had not had any kids.

  71. hey remember me? well, I had a tl on September 11, 2012…so almost 4 months out and GUESS WHAT?!?!? ……I feel freakin great….NO SYNDROMES!!!! lmao….and no more BABIES!!! lol

    • Julie Was Here


      I would say “yay, no PTLS” but we already knew there wouldn’t and couldn’t be. It would be like saying “hooray m, no post fingernail clipping syndrome!”

      Enjoy your new sterility! Im sure enjoying mine.

  72. ValiantBlue


  73. I’m really happy that your TL went without incedent. But I have to ask, why do you believe that other women couldn’t be suffering side effects from the same proceedure just because you dont? I am part of a support group of women that has over 650 women who all suffer from the same symptoms. I’ve set up a website on PTLS that has a range from 10 to 100 hundred visiters per day.

    You can’t possibly believe that it is all in the heads of these women when there are so many? I’m not normaly one to insult another person without reason, but it makes no sense that you wont be willing to consider that other women aren’t just like you. It seems extremely narrow minded.

    • Julie Was Here

      Are you a doctor? Can you provide proof of PTLS? Can you explain why your Fallopian tubes are magic and perform a vital function that you need, but no one else does?

      Take your ignorant, fear-mongering, medical myths and shove them.

      Oh, and bandwagon fallacy: ‘lots of idiots believe it, so it must be true!’
      Lots of people claim to have seen Bigfoot too, that doesn’t mean shit.

      • Ok, so lets take away the label of PTLS. You still have hundreds of women who suffer similar symptoms after having a tubal ligation. I’m not saying that all women get it, nor am I saying that the tubal is the only possible cause for the symptoms. But if you’d read the post I left above, you will see that I am simply upset at the LACK of information and studies that have been done about these symptoms that plague so many.

        What you are saying is that just because there hasn’t been any valid medical research on the matter that it simply can’t exist. So I’ll take this opportunity to say to you what you’ve so childishly said to me. “Can you provide proof?” If PTLS or these symptoms are all an imaginary thing, prove it.

        There hasn’t been more than one study done on the after effects of a tubal ligation surgery since the 80′s. Medical technology has come very far since then and I’m possitive that if a new study was conducted, new proof could be found.

        What you are saying about each woman’s body is exactly the same and will react exactly the same under the same circumstances to every situation. That is insanity. Every person reacts differently to almost every situation, inlcuding surgery, food, social circumstances, etc.

        If you want to call someone ignorant, it should be yourself for being so nieve to not consider the thoughts and intelligence level of others. Of course, your response will be to call me names and tell me I’m stupid agian, but go ahead.. I’m sure you’re sure you’re right.

        • Julie Was Here

          Oh, sick people exist? Well, let’s not bother finding a real cause – that would take work. No, let’s just make up something completely arbitrary and senseless to blame, and then list every single condition under the sun as a “symptom.” Oh, you have the fucking sniffles? And you say you had a tubal 10 years ago? Nevermind the fact that it makes no sense to blame the tubal, that women without tubals can have the same problem, and there are many different things that can cause this symptom, it MUST be PTLS. If enough lazy ignoramuses believe that, it MUST be true.

          Seriously, proof or GTFO.

          I brought proof. There HAVE been studies done in the matter. I linked to them in my post. Ignoring the truth does not make it go away. You know what the truth is, what those studies found? There is no PTLS. And a basic understanding of human physiology is already enough to tell anyone with half a brain that there couldn’t possibly be such a thing – but the time and resources you’ve wasted evidently isn’t enough yet so you demand more.

          I’m not saying that every body is the same, what I’m dying I that you are not a special little snowflake, who looks human on the surface bit is completely something else underneath. If you really think that your fallopian tubes perform some function that no one else’s do, a function that you need but no one else does, then frankly, you’re out of your mind.

          Yes, that’s stupid. You have no interest in the truth, or the real cause of the problems of the women you perpetuate lies to. An you clearly know nothing of medicine, the human body, of even such a basic scientific concept as the burden of proof.

          Come back with proof or don’t bother coming back at all.

          • There is a huge flaw to the research that you provided. It doesn’t cover the whole scope of symptoms of what women with (what we call) ptls are suffering. Lets say that the definition of ptls is only what the article that you posted suggests. ptls is only the increased risk of abnormal menstrual cycles. Again, I say strip away the PTLS label and just focus on the symptoms. I’m just fine with that. I’m also possitive that many of the symptoms listed on most ptls websites are because some women don’t know what else could be the cause of their symptoms.

            However, the research that you provided didn’t touch the main core of issues that I’ve been hearing about. Most women suffer more than just abnormal periods. They also suffer depression/anxiety, tenderness or pain at ovulation, and chronic fatige. How can that study be called thorough when it didn’t address the concerns that are known? Of course doctors can say ptls doesn’t exists because the definition isn’t what it is most commonly known for.

            Also, I add that I’ve personally been seaching for a cure for all of my own symptoms since 2007 when I had my tubal done, and I didn’t have the name PTLS to go on. I’d never read the list of possible symptoms that can occur after a tl and every treatment for every symptom I had didn’t come close to working. So, either these doctors were just incompetent or they just didn’t know what to look for?

            That is my proof. Myself.

            I’m not so narrow minded to overlook the possibility that I may be wrong here though. I’m more than open to any suggestions that could help me with the “actual” causes of my symptoms. If/when I get a tubal reversal, I will be back here to post the results and let every one know if it really helped me or not. Trust me when I tell you that I only want a treatment that will make me better. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong and I’ll look into what other possible cause could be making me a completely different person than I used to be.

            But if I’m right and having my tubes untied does fix the issues, I’ll pass that along too. At that point I will be able to say, like so many women who have suffered just like I have, that a TR did in fact help.

            • Julie Was Here

              What part of “proof or get the fuck out,” don’t you understand?

              ‘There needs to be research done a but not by me! Oh, there’s already been money and time wasted in this research? Well, it doesn’t support my ill-informed conclusion, so it doesn’t count!” Actually, the sties covered exactly what you asked for, maybe you should try reading them?

              Seriously, burden of proof. Look it up. Oh, and simply claiming something is NOT proof. Seriously, don’t be so stupid.

              Here’s the thing about your special pleading, wherein you insist on getting rid of the label PTLS for the sake of argument – but that’s not what you’re doing. You already jump to the absurd and baseless conclusion that a tubal ligation is somehow to blame.

              Although I see that people are capable of lying, and at least one poster was even caught red-handed doing so on this very page in regards to PTLS, it’s not the “symptoms” that are in question, it’s what they are symptoms OF.

              You and your irresponsible, ignorant ilk perpetuate the dangerous and senseless myth that tubal ligations are somehow to blame, and you won’t let reality stop you.

              • Ok, you have presented two articles (that I can find) as evidence that PTLS in the form that most women who suffer from it agree to see it.
                The first article ( seems very valid. It was a focus group study of thousands of individuals but only regarded their menstrual cycle in the study. No emotional or other physical changes were tracked. That seems logical if at the time of the origination of the study, women didn’t know that any of the symptoms where a result of the TL. That makes perfect sense to me.
                The other study ( wasn’t much of a study at all. It was a study of opinions of the medical professionals that performed tubal ligation surgeries. I know that most of the wont admit a repeated pattern of a few women a year who come back for a checkup after having a TL and say that they are suffering from what they may think is post partum depression, or that their cycle is so painful they can’t get out of bed. Of course they aren’t going to say that. The Surgeon General doesn’t say that they are required or allowed to disclose this information because there are too many other reasons that could be causing the same symptoms in so many of these women. I’m sure it is much more profitable as well to treat these women for their new symptoms than to admit that the doctor caused them to begin with.
                So, if you have any other articles that are actually about studies that were officially conducted, I’ll gladly read them and learn more about what the medical profession has to say. But please make sure they are recent.
                I also want to say one more thing before I go. And yes, you will finally get rid of me. Your original post was very well put together. You made a very good argument and it is still one that I respect. Since then however, your responses to the comments that are on this page only show a spoiled brat who always wants to be right. I’m not sure why that is, but it is very sad. I hope that whatever is causing you to be so spiteful and argumentative against any point of view but your own gets resolved in your life. It must really be a miserable life to be so bitter.

              • Julie Was Here

                ‘It’s an old study, so it doesn’t count.’

                The “symptoms” aren’t a result of the tubal though, and you have no basis to assert otherwise. As for emotions, that’s entirely within your own control – tubal ligations don’t and can’t affect brain chemistry. It doesn’t even make any sense for a research group to even study such a thing. You may as well complain that the studies don’t correlate tubal ligations and re-sale value on homes or something.

                As for the second link, that’s actually a review of MULTIPLE studies. Actually read the damned thing.

                I’ll remind you again that the burden of proof is on you. Although I DO have evidence against PTLS, I don’t need any. It’s on you, the one making then claim that PTLS is real, to prove it. You have repeatedly failed. Put up or shut up – I’ve told you this many times before.

                Oh right, I’m a “spoiled brat who always wants to be right” for not mindlessly accepting your made-up bullshit. I’ll give you one thing, I DO want to be right – I am and I have the data to back me up. Why do you insist on clinging to debunked and senseless myths? Oh, did you think you were insulting me? Yeah, my intelligence, honesty, and lack of gullibility are tooootally character flaws.

              • You do know people like her are the reason it is so difficult to get a doctor to perform the TL, right? When insanity strikes, they all go back, retie their tubes and sue the doctors on top of that, for a good measure. FML

  74. Julie, I was suffering with PTLS for over three years until finally I had my reversal early in November of 2012. Following my tubal ligation troubling symptoms gradually began mounting.

    First was the dramatic change in my menses — my cramps and back pain were so severe that I couldn’t even get up and move to take care of my toddlers (finally got Rx Vicodin), and my flow became so heavy and I bled for so long (9-10 days) it was concerning. Next was the complete loss of libido; increase in facial hair; insomnia (2nd half of cycle); loss of breast mass; night sweats the week leading up to menses; severe hair loss on head; loss of appetite; and finally, itchy and dry vaginal area throughout 2nd half of my cycle — and no, no yeast infection or stds.

    Now, it’s been two months since my tubal reversal and ALL of my symptoms are gone. My improvement has been absolutely incredible. Upon 1st ovulation following my reversal my breasts became VERY full, heavy, and more sensitive. This was such a dramatic change I THOUGHT I was pregnant though that was not the case. My menstrual cramps are back to slight, tolerable cramping; flow is moderate to light lasting 4-5 days (pre tubal ligation norm); food tastes good again; painful anxiety is gone; my hair loss has slowed down normal and my hair is growing back in. I have my health back!

    So lets review:
    female in excellent health — tubal ligtion — female’s health deteriorates — tubal reversal — female returns to pre tubal ligation health status.

    It would really do you a world of good to be a little less skeptical. But no, you will probably continue on about the “scientific evidence” and blah, blah, blah. Just listen to the countless testimonies of women out there. This is no mystery, and yes, it’s really that simple!

    One question — If you’re so convinced that PTLS doesn’t exist, then why are you wasting your precious time debating this “deception”?

    • Julie Was Here

      Im not wasting time. In doing a service debunking a harmful myth your ignorant kind perpetuate.

      Testimonies do not mean jack shit. As I’ve written, people claim to have seen Bigfoot, UFOs, ghosts, and angels too. It means nothing. I have a dragon in my garage, and his unicorn friend comes by to visit on Saturdays when he can catch a ride on a rainbow – do you believe that just because I’ve said it? Would you believe it more if I believed it?

      You want to say a tubal somehow magically caused your problems and getting a reversal fixed it? Then answer this – HOW? What magic quality do you thing your fallopian tubes possess, which normal people evidently do not have or need? Explain that.

  75. I had a TL in 06′ when i was 26yrs old…Shortly after I began to get terribly sick.. My stomach would become so swollen that I would look 6 mo pregnant. I had heart palps, panic attacks, allergies, hair loss, terrible clots along with tons of others terrible things to where I felt like I was going to die… Being a female became the worst thing ever.. I had never had female issues before the TL.. I had not been on birth control either, so this was not an adjustment from discontinuation. I was getting sicker, and sicker.. I did have a reversal, so far I am doing much better….. Not much research has been put into the effects of a TL.. I was fine before, and sick after…

    • Julie Was Here

      Did you even read the post before you replied? Or the comments that have already been posted?

      1. Personal testimony doesn’t mean shit. Self-diagnosis of ignorant laymen doesn’t mean shit. What made you think you’d be the exception?

      2. Actually, lots of research has been done on tubal ligations. It all debunks the myth of so-called post tubal ligation syndrome.

  76. OK– First off have any of you ever heard of a “false pregnancy”? It’s when a female thinks(or wants) to be pregnant so much that her body actually gets every symptom of being pregnant…even missed periods! When the brain gets fixed on an idea the body can actually present with all the symptoms! SO–perhaps–the women who experience “ptls” have read too much and actually “brainwashed” themselves? Or–perhaps– some women REGRET their decision or doubt if they were REALLY done having children–so they talk their own body into “ptls”? HOWEVER– here is a medical point of view that perhaps none of you are aware of… alot of these surgeries involved the use of nitrous oxide for anesthesia..most people don’t even know what was used on them..anyhow..nitrous can WIPE OUT your vitamin B12 stores in your body..and I think if you all do a little research into vitamin B12 deficienies you will solve alot of your “PTLS” symptoms!!
    SO–for those of you out there that just need a reason to whine and get attention..disregard what I’m saying and carry on with your”ptls”. For those of you who secretly regret your TL because you just want to get knocked up all means..ignore me and go get your expensive assinine TR’s done.
    However– for those of you who actually ARE ILL and DONT want a pregnancy after surgery..get your vitamin B12 checked feel better and stay sterile :)

  77. after you google b12 deficiency then google b12 deficiency and menstrual cycle….i think I debunked your “syndrome”

    • Julie Was Here

      A good point. Like I said, the supposed symptoms of PTLS are so vague they could be caused by any number of things. But people are lazy so they blame tubals.

      Have the fucking sniffles? Had a tubal a decade ago? It must be PTLS. Don’t bother with cold medicine.

  78. LMAO..Julie you are funny :) It’s true though, and HEY JENNIFER….. i AM FAR FROM NARROW MINDED AND IF YOU ARE NOT NARROW MINDED THEN TAKE MY ADVICE! I’m not saying that people don’t feel different after surgery! I am saying that JULIE IS 100% CORRECT IN SAYING THE TUBES HAVE 0% TO DO WITH IT!! And if you and your “ptls” buddies actually have the brains to listen then do yourselves a favor and don’t load up on b12 supplements and then get your levels checked…get your levels checked first!!
    I didn’t feel like myself post surgery BUT I KNOW IT MEDICALLY CAN HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH MY FALLOPIAN TUBES…so I did research…cuz I’m NOT a narrow minded LAZY baby who needs shitloads of retarded attention!!!!!
    Have a nice day :)

  79. so I’m sterile…and I get B12 shots from my Doc because I have a B12 deficiency….Instead of running out and getting a TR I just correct what the anesthesia did to my B12 supply and I feel great!!
    Imagine that?!? Since I KNOW that my tubes can NOT be the cause…I looked for the REAL REASON!!!
    Stop being “NARROW MINDED” and realize the TRUTH!!

    • Becks, I’m more than willing to look into a B12 deficiency. If your right, I’ll let you know. However, if you read all of the posts that I’ve put up here, I’m not saying that PTLS is the only possible cause of what is wrong with me. Especially since the generic definition of PTLS, provided by the medical profession, is only a change in menstrual cycles. But I am saying that if it was as simple as a B12 deficiency, than why haven’t any doctor that I’ve seen said that it was possible? Like I said, I’m open to any help I can get here, and I’ll certainly look into what you’ve found.

      I do find it ironic though, that most of the women who have “PTLS” have already found out that vitimins do help some of the symptoms but they don’t help all of them. I certainly think your on the right track here but you haven’t found a cure-all.

      • Julie Was Here

        Actually, there is no definition for PTLS given by the medical community. It’s not a recognized condition at all. no reputable medical organization pretends its a thing, just the doctors willing to let myths be perpetuated as long as it helps sell tubal reversals.

        See, rational, honest people look at facts, THEN make conclusions. They don’t take a conclusion, assume its truth, then collect data. I hope you aren’t under the impression that it’s the job of the scientific community to play myth buster, ignoring their own demonstrable findings to investigate the unsubstantiated crap know-nothing mommies make up.

    • I did look up the symptoms of a B12 deficiency. The symptoms are scarily like mine. I’ll schedule an appointment with my doc tomorrow. I have a question for you though. Do you have to have regular shots now of B12? I think I read that it was only a couple of months after you TL that you were able to find out that it was a B12 deficiency, how long has it been since then? Have you had any other surgeries where this happened to you also? Did you doctor tell you that this is common? Sorry for all the questions but like to know everything about any possible help I can get.

  80. I feel I have had a B12 deficiency for quite some time but my symptoms were exacerbated by the surgery in September. Also, I started taking metformin in September because I have PCOS. Metformin can also affect the b12 level. No doctor has EVER suggested B12 level be drawn on me..I had to research it myself and INSIST upon it!!
    ALSO— the low “norm” that the US considers acceptable or “normal” is 200…however, in Japan they see 500 as the lowest level for normal B12! This is why Japan has a markedly lower incidence of neurological disorders, i.e., alzheimer’s, MS, etc..
    In this country, if you fall in the “low normal range” yet present with all the telltale signs of a deficiency, you have to fight and INSIST upon treatment! The B12 injections are not expensive however, and so if your insurance refuses than perhaps you would opt to pay out of pocket.
    Also, if you have not already done so, HAVE YOUR VITAMIN D CHECKED!!!
    Doctor’s in this country (most of them anyhow) do not check vitamins the way they should be…ROUTINELY!!!
    Vitamin deficiencies can lead to a person feeling VERY SICK and being looked at as a basket case because nothing else shows up. A deficiency that is left untreated for years can cause debilitating disease, cancer, neurological disorders, and even ultimately, death!
    I am getting a B12 injection once a week for a month and then twice a week for a month and then having my level checked again. Do I feel this is sufficient? NO. But it’s a start, I’m on my third shot and I feel better already. I will most likely, after I get my level in normal range, have to continue to receive an injection once a month for life.
    If you do find you have vitamin deficiencies, you may be missing intrinsic factor. Intrinsic factor is a protein that helps your intestines absorb vitamin B12. It is made by cells in the
    stomach lining.
    I hope this helps you in your journey to feel better. :)

  81. I had a TL in April 2009 during my c/s after having my second child. I did not have pain or any issues. I had read that it causes your milk supply to drop. I had so much milk that it was dripping onto my feet and went on to nurse until my son was 3. (I did not plan on going past a year but we just kept going) I finally got my period back at 13 months after he was born most likely because of nursing. Sure it was heavy for a few months but I had given birth, was still nursing (hormones!)and had not had a period in ages!!, after a few months it went back to normal (very light only lasting a day or 2). In the last 6 months or so my sex drive has gone down but I work 45 hours a week or more and have 2 children and a household to take care of! I am tired and just want to get to bed since I have to be up by 5:45 am to get us all out the door. I honestly feel no different now almost 4 years later than I did before my tl.
    I am sure these symptoms are real that these women are having but there are so many possible causes. they just had a baby and have raging hormones, they are breastfeeding, they went off birthcontrol, they are older, they have issues with vitamin levels and I could go on.

    It is interesting, I had been sick for 12 years with horrible migraines, joint and muscle pain, brain fog, exhaustion, my hair was falling out, stomach cramps, I had numbness in my feet, hands and face and I had optic neuritis. I went to many doctors they were convinced that it was lymes disease. Hmmm test neg well it must be lupus. Hmmm test neg well it must be chronic fatigue then they settled on fibromyalgia. Sure the steroids helped some but I was still sick. Then I had an MRI and had leisions on my brain. Oh it is MS but nevermind that your spinal is negative it is MS. Let’s pump you full of drugs for that then. Well, the same day my daughter was diagnosed with Celiac disease and my research said that is what I had! So, went for a blood test and I had gluten ataxia. Went gluten free and was perfect in a year! (this was back in 2005) Funny I had been to 3 neurologists, 2 allergists, primary docs and 2 gastros and not one of them mentioned gluten! I had basically bought into ok they say this is it, must be! It sucks to not know what is wrong when you know something is. It also sucks when they think you are nuts! So, yes when there is something out there that you can latch onto it does make you feel better! I am so glad that I kept researching and refused to believe it was fibromyalgia and then MS. Other wise I would still feel like crap!
    So yes my many symptoms of illness appeared to be something else!
    I am glad I had a TL as pregnancy tries to kill me! I had pre-eclampsia and HELLP syndrome in my first pregnancy resulting in a emergency c/s at 29 weeks and 2 lb baby. I waited 7 years and after careful watching had my 2nd child and had pre-eclampsia and gestational diabetes. I was done and don’t like what birth control can do to you and wanted to take control of my body.

    So glad that all is well for you Julie and great post!!

    • Julie Was Here

      Celiac disease? I’m sorry that happened to you but I’m glad you found the real problem so you could fix it. I understand that it can be frustrating to not know what’s wrong, but as we both know, you can never find the real answer if you just latch on to something senseless like PTLS.

      Thanks for your comment and good luck to you :)

  82. Forgot to mention that I was 31 when I had my tl.

  83. Stephanie Downer

    I am going for mine the 11th of Feburary. I would love to contact you to discuss your experience directly, if possible!!!

  84. I personally found this posting , “Countdown To Tubal: Post Tubal Ligation Syndrome? The Hiking Humanist”, extremely interesting plus the blog post was indeed a fantastic read. Thank you,Franchesca

  85. Thank you for this info. I have my surgery on the 29th of January ,2013. All of those women complaining about symptoms,had me a bit worried. I know many women who had the surgery done and they are fine. Once again thank you for this article. Now I feel better!

  86. Interesting. I am on a journey to listen to different viewpoints. Generally I would be in the conservative group. I am interested to know more how you see the world. I found this because I am getting tubal ligation tomorrow. I have had three children. ;)

  87. Interesting. Don’t know if my post went so I’m reposting. I’m interested to listen to this point of view. It’s obviously different than mine because we are different people. Found you because I’m having the procedure tomorrow. I am sorry for how much people have hurt you.

  88. I wonder how many women claiming side effects have in fact been poisoned by an antibiotic given to them at the time. There has been reports in New Zealand of a woman(Natasha Harris) dying from her coke adiction. But when I read the coroners report I noted she had had a tubal ligation and suffered serious side effects. She had also been on erythromycin at some stage. A lot of her health conditions are similar to those I got from exposure to the antibiotic chloramphenicol. It would be interesting to know how many women that have tubal ligation side effects have been given antibiotics and what antibiotics they had been given.

  89. Found this study on PubMed during my research:
    “These results suggest that surgical sterilization can result in subtle changes in ovarian function, even though ovulation itself is not affected. Bleeding irregularities following tubal ligation may in part be due to the fact that different surgical procedures may have different effects on ovarian blood supply. Further research should be done to compare specific effects of different sterilization procedures on ovarian function.”

    And on bleeding, “An increase in severe dysmenorrhea, which emerged as a disturbing but nonsignificant trend at 6-10 months…”
    It seems that studies to support PTLS may be (currently?) unfounded, but that long-term side effects resulting from the procedure are proven.

  90. OMG! I am scheduled to have a tubal ligation on 3/26…in 5 days….and have myself in panic mode because of all the PTLS stuff i’m finding. I was just googling the procedure trying to find out what most women experienced as far as recovery. I am almost scared to have it done now, but I have two children (both have autism) and definitely don’t want any more. Anyways, I’m just basically here saying I had NEVER heard of PTLS, but the internet has me freaked out! Is all still going well after yours?

  91. I want to thank you for such a level-headed and researched blog post. I’m planning on getting a TL in the next few months (age 35, 0 kids, don’t want any, EVER!) Thing is, I started researching what the procedure would be like, and I immediately stumbled into this weeping circus of PTLS. Obviously, that raised a few red flags … until I came across a blog written by a doctor explaining exactly the same thing you’ve written here.

    So thank you for confirming what I suspected: that PTLS *may* be a thing, but it hasn’t been confirmed by the medical community (unless they have something to gain from it.)

    Btw, post-abortion disorder? REALLY!? After 1 abortion and one blighted ovum (resulting in a false pregnancy and, to all effects, a miscarriage), I don’t remember having a single physical issue after my procedures.

  92. stephanie Megan

    I frickin love you… how are you after your TL?
    can you believe I even went all the way to a TL REversal Center… after paying on my credit card… 7,000 bucks… and at the lat minute… as I was watching the videos in that office and seeing the narcism of these surgeons … I felt.. this is wrong… this is a scam. These guys are multimillionaire conartists…
    I withdrew… did not have the surgery and of course they would not refund any of my money.

    I am still very sick…. I need prayers and I will be having hormone thyroid… all that workup this month… can’t come quickly enough…
    in reading your info and staying away from these PTLS advertisement sites….
    I feel that maybe it was not PTLS afterall… and I had been convinced that it was….

    so much more I could share…. but not sure if I should….

    thank you….

    • Julie Was Here

      Can’t get your money back? It sounds like a con. Maybe look in to legal action.

      If you’re feeling ill, see a general doctor and pursue the matter with an open mind and without pre-conceived notions.

      I am feeling well, thank you.

      • stephanie Megan

        total con…. and these two dudes are famous for reversals….. they are preying upon women in pain…. oh… get this reversal and all will be well…
        it is scary and sad and I’d love to have them on 20/20….

        right now… I just have to get well….

        glad you are well…

  93. My goodness! Here I was thinking my heavier periods were due to no longer being on the pill after my TL, my heart burn due to my diet, my headaches due to the stress of having 4 rugrats underfoot, my weight gain due to the the tumor found (and removed) from my thyroid, and my general getting oldness causing joint pain… and all along I had PTLS!!! Cue the hysteria!
    Thanks for the laughs I had reading comments left and responses made. I stumbled onto this page while researching my upcoming hysterectomy. Yeah, don’t know what the relation is either.
    Now I must be off to see if there is such a thing as “post hysterectomy syndrome”… because heaven forbid I just chalk everything up to the natural progression of the deterioration of the human body aging when there’s a nifty little medical mystery to pin it on.

  94. So I’m 2 months post my tubal and am doing FINE. My first cycle was a little more painful than normal, but I randomly get that anyways. Weight hasn’t changed, hair isn’t falling out. Oh, but I do have a toothache. Was that a symptom of PTLS?? lol I should probably blame it on that, since that’s the thing to do.

  95. patrice maxwell

    First im glad you surgery went well. Second you mentioned its okay to cut hair and nails too. Though funny it is also misleading. A person CAN severly damage nails, nail beds and fingers with the wrong cut. A persons hair can also be severly damaged when handled and cut wrong. Just like with hair and nails, Just because it doesn’t hu rt AT THE TIME or may seem inconsequential, the damage to blood and biological functions is none-the less felt, as seen in cases of infections of cut cuticles and ruined hair and follicles. Again I’m glad you had a desirable out come, but ask that you take a more empathetic approach to ptls sufferers

    • Julie Was Here

      Yeah, I guess a haircut could be damaging if I just stabbed myself in the skull with a pair I scissors, but that doesn’t really make cutting the hair the problem.

      I don’t know how to be empathetic towards people who do not exist. There is no such thing as a ptls sufferer because ptls is not even real.

  96. Oh Juile Juile Julie..i suffer from this, and my symptoms are not due to Pre menopause, because i dont fit the age range to be pre menopausal..I guess you and my specialist should have a talk one day. Shocking that a blogger can downgrade people who do suffer from this affliction can openly demean them in such a way that you come across crass..its not a myth..
    Bloodletting was once proven to cure most illnesses. Now it is considered totally ineffective. Margarine was considered much healthier than butter. Now research suggests that the exact opposite is true. Eggs were considered very bad because of high cholesterol. Now research suggests that they are not bad at all, and they are actually healthy for the body. Chocolate and oily foods were touted to be a cause of acne. Now research suggests that they do not contribute in any way to acne. Medical doctors touted that baby formula was much better than breast milk for children.Now the exact opposite is shown to be true.
    Milk was recommended for coating the stomach and alleviating stomach ulcers. Now it is discouraged and has been found to aggravate ulcers. Medical science stated that diet had absolutely no effect on disease or illness. Now we are told t hat diet has a huge effect on the prevention and cause of disease. Medical science once had scientific evidence that the removing of tonsils and appendix improved health and should be done to virtually everyone. Now the medical community has reversed that theory. Children with asthma were told to stay in enclosed pool areas because the humidity was good for their asthmatic condition. Now research suggests that the chlorine in the air from the pools actually aggravates and makes the asthma worse. The most obvious example of all is the fact that there are thousands of drugs that have been approved by the FDA because they were scientifically proven to cure or prevent disease, in addition to having been touted as safe. Then, years later, they have been taken off the market because they had been newly proven to either not cure or prevent those diseases as originally thought, or those drugs were found to have such terribly adverse side effects that they are simply too dangerous for people to use.

    The point is, what we are being told by the medical community as “fact ” is simply not fact at all. It is the ” current theory” and ” thought of the day,” I can not fathom the thought of a person can not think back in history and see what was proven as “Hoop la” was actually fact. so please open your mind a bit, yes you can read medical text books and read articles online..until it happens to you, dont condemn..Take care!!

    • Julie Was Here

      Blah blah blah. Haven’t you bothered to even read the comment here? You’re one comparable to the nuts who think they’re afflicted by bad blood needing to be let by leaches. You believe in a condition that does not exist, and is not supported by the medical community, is physically impossible, and is utterly refuted by every single study ever done on the matter. As long as you pretend to have the answer, you will not ever find the real truth, and your problems will continue. Keep applying your leaches. Next you’ll be telling me that you saw Bigfoot.

      This is not how medical diagnosis works. You can’t just make shit up with no evidence, ignore all evidence against, and then insist that other people are closed minded for not being dumb enough to buy into bullshit. You’re the one who is closed-minded as you cling desperately to absurd ideas you can’t even support, ignoring reality, and whacking that other people aren’t as mindlessly gullible as you.

      • Are you real or just a troll Julie? I say that because obviously, whatever doctor or medical personnel you are talking to is a peanut :/ So explain why when i had my tubal , scar tissue formed and my ovaries counteracted and sent my ovaries into over drive and caused me to have cysts on my ovaries? Im ovulating like a banshee in heat.. 0.o I suffer from depression from all of this due to hormones. Im on hormone therapy to counteract this affect. Its like im PMS’ing 24/7 if im not on my meds and a full hysterectomy is in my future due to fybroids that are forming in my uterus. my specialists(and you can argue with him since you seem to hold a PHD) told me the excess hormones is playing havoc on my system. So before you run your mouth off..make it known im better at it than you. Yes this freakin’ operation f**ked me up..and dont be too quick to run to medical to specialists..they know a hell alot more than you….freakin ppl and excess to the internet=[ *gawd*

        • You must be from the USA since your medical services failed you. Im in a country where we have GREAT specialists, and they dont call people who suffer from this “Dumb or stupid” Wait a while..this whole blog will be refuted..stupid is as stupid does ..

          • And btw that term “post tubal ligation syndrome” was termed by women who went through the same thing, that’s the reason why you cant find medical articles on it dimwit 0_o its not in your precious books..or you cant go online and research that term in medical you are scouring the internet :p…when the “Medical term” comes about I’ll let you know…there are many studies on it..also bte my SPECIALIST (not you) told me its pron due to the decline in estrogen/progesterone hormone levels caused by isolation of the ovaries. So come on Dr. julie..bring on your rebuttal..

            • Julie Was Here

              Dumbasses making shit up is not a form of evidence. Plenty of people claim to have seen aliens and make up names for them too.

              If it were real, medical research would confirm it. It certainly wouldn’t consistently disprove it every time it’s investigated.

            • Julie Was Here

              Here’s the deal. It’s the same one I gave the other nut. Find scientific evidence of PTLS. A peer-reviewed, published study. Find a causation all connection between tubal libations, and any of the vaguely-defined symptoms of PTLS.

              Unlike you, I don’t mindlessly cling to nonsense. I never believe in anything without solid, evidentiary support. And I’m ready to change my mind should previously held believe be disproven. Can you claim to have the same level of honesty? I doubt it, since you have yet to cite any valid source for your claims, and you stubbornly ignore all evidence against (the scientific research cited in my post, which I doubt you even read.)

              So this is what you’re going to do. In your next comment, you are to provide proper citation to any scientific study (not just the web page if some quack bilking gullible idiots for reversals.) OR you will post a retraction and apology. You will do one or the other before you are allowed to comment on this post again.

              Pretty simple rules. If you’re right, it shouldn’t be a problem at all. If you’re wrong, but honest, it wouldn’t be a problem either. The only time in which this rule would be a problem would be if you are both wrong and dishonest. Wrong and dishonest is exactly what you will be judged as if you break this rule, an then I’ll have to block you for being a troll.

              Put up or shut up.

        • Julie Was Here

          Scientific research. Peer-reviewed studies. I’ll believe them over some yahoo making up imaginary ass conditions ever time she gets the fucking sniffles.

          You have no reason to think your tubal did anything. It might shock you to know that even women who have never had tubals get cysts. You may as well blame a new pair of shoes.

          You have lots of problems. Physical and mental. You have no reason to think a tubal had anything to do with them.

          You’re almost as bad as those bitches who deny their kids vaccinations because they’re dumb enough to think vaccines cause autism. Spreading medical disinformation is dangerous and you should be ashamed of yourself.

  97. ‘Despite the vast discrepancies in the research findings, it does appear that women 20-29 years of age with pre-existing histories of menstrual dysfunction are at increased risk of some post-tubal sterilization symptoms.’

    From a MetaReview on PubMed.
    Author: Gentile, et al.

    The ‘scientific literature’ has a long history of disparaging & ignoring women’s experiences, however, ask & you shall receive.

    • Julie Was Here

      Well, at least that’s something. Good on you for at least trying.

      1. Post tubal ligation symptoms are so poorly defined that the idea is meaningless.
      2. Did you miss the bit where the women already had problems before the the tubal? Tubal cant be blamed for that.
      3. Did you miss the word “may”? As in, the study was not able to prove it, they were simply unable to control their variables?
      4. You do realize that this same article you cited is the exact same one I already cited, as it does way more to disprove PTLS than support

  98. First of all, thank you for debunking this bullshit. When I was looking for information about the procedure this had me a little worried. In contrast my doctor didn’t even mention it when he agreed to do the procedure and none of the papers I had to sign (which explained the risks involved in the surgery) mentioned this mysterious syndrome.
    It’s been a year since my TL (laparoscopic cauterization) and I’m fine. No menstrual abnormalities, no changes to sexual function, no mood changes: nothing unusual. No regret either. If I had to, I’d do it all over again.

    • Julie Was Here

      I was in the same boat when I was looking into getting myself snipped. The only places I could find that claimed PTLS was even a thing were the sites of snake-oil salesmen claiming to have the cure, doctors peddling reversals. The only people I could find claiming to have PTLS were women who didn’t think through getting fixed in the first place and were looking for an excuse to get a reversal and have another baby.

      Without any kind of evidentiary support for PTLS existing, or any sort of practical mechanism by which tubals could possibly cause any of the problems claimed, and worst of all, without there being a single definition of what PTLS even is (the “symptoms” are horrendously inconsistent) I put PTLS in the same category as PAS, and dismissed it entirely. It ain’t real.

  99. I am tonia and i care about julie’s tubes so much that i cannot stay the fuck away from this website or stop leaving comments for two years. i am a prissy hypocrite and i hate myself and the fact that julie will not kowtow to my precious feelings like a woman should. i am pathetic and should be banned.

    PTLS is not a thing that is and i should be ashamed of my endless need to be right about imaginary things.

  100. Ok, I would like to bring my case to your attention in regards to PTLS. I’ve read through some of the comments, and have done some research and inquiry. I see the point you’re making with generalized symptoms that are often misunderstood as being some other known diagnosis. When I initially responded in Nov ’12, I was in no condition to fully communicate the distinction of my pelvic condition. I’m not a gynecologist , or a medical doctor, but I have some credentials which have helped me understand my own medical issues over the years. I’ve had several years as a RPhT in a hospital pharmacy, mail order pharmacy, and received my Associates in Applied Science. First I’m going to explain some unrelated medical background before I get into pelvic issues.
    About a year after having my decidedly second, and last, child, I began to suffer symptoms of a quite painful spinal condition (not soliciting for sympathy either). I then began a life of chronic and severe pain that took years to diagnose. Even though I felt I knew what I had, I created my 3 ring binder and collected the data over the years. Labs, MRI reports , X-Rays, spinal procedure reports, surgical reports, etc. After four years I received a diagnosis, and I’ve seen more specialists than most do in their lives. The reason being, I was considered too young at the time to have degenerative disc disease
    (degenerating disc are normal with age,but certain conditions aren’t).
    During the process I wanted to make sure I couldn’t get pregnant(as I wanted to anyway after child two), and that didn’t mean sending my husband out for a vasectomy. I decided on Essure with Uterine Ablation for several reasons. My ob/gyn of 14 years said it was considered less invasive than tubal ligation .That was appealing to me since I already had done a lumbar L5-S1 fusion /partial laminectomy w/instrumentation, 9 spinal procedures, and bi-lateral knee surgery – all in 4 years time. My periods were becoming irregular in cycle and lasting about 20 days while on the pill,and this hasn’t always been the case with me either.
    The procedure was done out-patient, in my gyn’s surgical room at the groups’ office, with an anisthiesiologist . She reported a successful procedure and I got to see some great pics of my burned uterus and the placement of the coils. I passed the confirmation test and loved every bit of my new found freedom of not bleeding for 2+ weeks.
    During that waiting period, I had to come off b/c anyway. I developed a thrombus of the cephalic vein in my left arm, a peripheral , extending from my elbow to armpit. After a brief hospitalization, the hematologist revealed all the labs showing I have two genetic clotting Factors ( V Leiden & II ).Of course I was taken off b/c in the hospital, but due to these Factors, can’t ever use HRT, even bio-identical plant based preparations, and I take a daily aspirin cause of my increased risk for clotting. So yes, me and my husband were thrilled to pass that confirmation in Jan ’11 of me being ‘plugged’. I had no further complications for a while.
    Jan 2012 I began to experience a constellation of intermittent symptoms that I finally felt needed attention in March. Increased ovarian pain, uterine cramping w/ moderate bleeding, led to a few ultrasounds, and labs. All that was detected during that time were follicular cysts, not many, ranging in size. Labs were normal. A small mass was eventually detected in my uterus as possible blood material dried up. The symptoms I had eventually turned to excruciating, contraction intense, uterine cramping for several hours a day with ovarian type pains just as intense. I also bled more heavily.Late fall I started to feel really ill. Constipation and vomitting became horrendous, no joke, and so I couldn’t eat. This resulted in a 14 lb loss in 10 days by Nov ’12, Alarmed by my condition, my doctor had tests done STAT, and then as I waited, she and her colleagues examined my ultrasound. When she came back with the findings she initially told me, “You have post essure/tubal ligation syndrome.”, and she indicated the slash with her hand as she said it. Here is how she basically described it in simple terms: I had a condition in my fallopian tubes, at the site of my plugs. The small amount of fluid and blood that usually drain out through the uterus will eventually drain out the ‘other way’ if they become plugged or ligated. In some cases it doesn’t always do that and it can build up at the plugged/ligated site, becoming increasingly painful as the buildup grows, such as my case. However, she couldn’t confirm the cause of my uterine symptoms. There isn’t a way to ‘clean it up’,or ‘reverse it’, a partial hysterectomy (meaning I keep the ovaries and cervix since mine have been healthy) was needed. She promised all of these symptoms would end as soon as it was done. The truly miserable part was waiting 2 weeks for the surgery!
    Once it was done, it was over and I felt wonderful to start healing. My doctor’s surgical pictures revealed my swollen fallopian tubes at the plugs, almost looking like a ball then narrowing down. Turns out my uterine issue was thanks to adenomyosis: when the endometrial tissue invades the myometrium. I had some pea sized growths developing and my uterus had expanded like a balloon. The last set of labs showed slightly low testosterone which eventually resolved.She concluded that I had post essure syndrome in the fallopian tubes and uterine adenomyosis. She stated the same could’ve happened in my fallopian tubes if I had a tubal ligation, and the two conditions I had were two seperate events. If you research the connection between adenomyosis and ablation/ligation, it becomes a debate that books are written on by several doctors.
    I’ve healed from well from surgery. I wanted to point out to you that there might be cases with tubals, although rare, where build up occurs in the fallopian tubes. If so, it will, over time, show up on a pelvic ultrasound. That’s all it takes to become post tubal ligation syndrome according to my doctor. I was also told this occurence is rare in tubal ligation /essure/ ablation, in the fallopian tubes. The adenomyosis was most miserable, and that is not ptls, or pes, peas, and ptas. The only way to rectify either is by some type of hysterectomy.
    That’s it, thanks.

    • Julie Was Here

      Fluid and blood is reabsorbed by the body. The only way you could have buildup is if there was a constant production. Which just could mean your plugs were improperly placed. IF Essure was even related at all (why would it wait a year? And why are health conditions, which you already had a history of developing, suddenly sterilization’s fault?)

      And it want even a god damned tubal ligation anyway. It was Essure, which is a completely different procedure.

      PTLS my ass.

  101. I know Essure and Tubals are different procedures, but as I said, the fallopian tubes can have fluid accumulate and clump after either procedure. My coils were placed fine, my confirmation test went well,and I didn’t have any issues for about a year and 4 months.
    Not all fluids and blood are reabsorbed into the body. Once the fallopian tubes are tied, cut, cauterized or plugged, cyclical fluids and blood that don’t get reabsorbed will usually start draining the other direction. If not, it sits at the site and accumulates until noticeably painful.
    My doctor explained the low testosterone I had was a result from excess fluid build up, containing hormones, which contributed to the GI upset.
    This is a condition that takes time to happen once the procedure has been done, regardless if it’s a tubal or essure.
    My uterus, diagnosed different, didn’t have dried blood material, but 2 pea sized cysts. That was from uterine adenomyosis, when outer uterine wall tissue burrows into the inner tissue layers.
    I’ve discussed this with several doctors, and was told what I had in my fallopian tubes is called post essure syndrome (or post tubal ligation syndrome if I had a tubal ligation and this had happened). However, in any case it’s rare, and the causes aren’t well known. Adenomyosis of the uterus however is a seperate condition, and isn’t caused from sterilization. I’ve researched possible causes, and they might be true, but they’re not from essure or a tubal ligation. I’ve a 90 yr old grandmother who had a full hysterectomy in her mid 30′s due to uterine adenomyosis with a large uterine cyst developed. Except no prior health issues or sterilization at the time. Back in the ’50′s they took it all out for ‘benign tumors’.
    I’m not suggesting my post essure syndrome was iatrogenic or linked to sterilization. My confirmation test went well. In any surgical procedure, there will be a small percentage of the population that reacts adversely, and it can take time. Surgical outcomes aren’t instantaneous. The exact causes as to why fluid doesn’t properly drain from the fallopian tubes in post essure (or post tubal ligation syndrome) isn’t confirmed yet, but it can happen.
    The point is that PTLS can happen in the fallopian tubes, at the severed,tied, and cauterized site; and it’s clumped blood and fluid that accumulates overtime and will eventually become painful. Proof can be seen on an ultrasound,and eventually the surgical pics. It doesn’t neccessarily mean it’s iatrogenic or as a result of sterilization.
    Anytime we have surgery, we have to accept there are different types of failure, even if the probability is small. I understand that the vast majority of ‘PTLS sufferers’ may very well indeed have other medical issues or are simply going through normal life changes. That wasn’t my case at all, and none of my doctors have linked it to iatrogenisis or sterilization. Perhaps the name of the condition all together is ill fitted.
    So now I have a partial hysterectomy and am wonderfully sterile.

    • Julie Was Here

      Unless the cysts are caused by the essure, it isn’t really all that reasonable to call it “post essure syndrome,” is it?

      • But thats ur view is’nt Julie? Fast forward a few are in a home(because frankly I dont see anyone in their right mind taking u in) You hate children all ur see your neighbors having visits from family, sons, daughters..and here you are looking out the window thinking about your Hot tub, steaks, ribs on the BBQ..I feel so bad for you Julie, tbh…you live in the “Now” and you dont think about the future..All there will be is you in ur old winkley state , prob playing bingo in a home and wondering why ppl dont visit you. I read your other blog about a fire pit and how Children would ruin your life 0.o You are materialistic..and mark my words!! Once you and your husband becomes bored things will get iffy..Men are programmed to want to pro might think he dont want kids..hahhaha.enjoy that vacay hun..reality will set in to you very quickly if it has not already!! You base ur relationship on material things..hahah, been there done that, have more than you and have 3 children . I have a hot tub, I have a sauna out back in my fire pit is used for neighborhood your analogy of having this is void..If you think in your mind one can not have these things and cant enjoy them? you are a fool..and in the future you will be a lonely fool..

        • Julie Was Here

          Does believing that make you feel better about yourself? You must be a special kind of pathetic.

          Men aren’t programmed to want to breed. Neither are women. It turns out, people are not machinery. We aren’t programmed at all. Some people are actually capable of independent thought. We don’t all have to just mindlessly follow the herd. We don’t all have to make your mistakes.

          And don’t worry about my man, worry about your own (if you even have one.) Three kids, you say? Even men who do want kids don’t get much enjoyment in throwing hot dogs down hallways, you know. So, what’s the secretary’s name?

          You know what the real difference between you and me is? Years from now, I won’t be the one wondering why the kids never visit. Maybe if you’re lucky, they’ll at least find a nice nursing home to forget about you in.

          It’s funny, you revealed a lot about yourself when you commented here. You showed what you are insecure about in your own life. I would feel sorry for you, but, well, you’re kind of a bitch. And I’m sure I’m not the only one to motive.

          • Dear Blogger, I will be polite because I believe one should be polite when speaking to people. My wife had a tubal ligation 3 years ago. We have 3 children, 10, 8, and 5. We are a young couple, i am 32, she is 29. We are very active people. We go to the gym every day during our work break. After my wife had her tubal she started to gain weight around her tummy area, and she started to get flushes with sweat. We are in limited income. She is miserable. She works out every day, and I will always love ger in any shape she may be in. Our children are blessings, and they make our family whole. If we thought it would be like this after this operation we would not have had it. She is constantly tired, her menstral cycle is so heavy, and she is cramping alot. She developed a twisted ovary after this procedure which made her faint at work, she lost the ovary due to lack of blood supply to it. I was so scared, i did not know what was going on. I have friends also that don’t want children and are happy, but for us, we wanted a family and they are all I have. I am happy that you never experienced what my wife did, I would not wish this on anyone. Your blog has been enligtening, but we don’t know what the real effects of this procedure are.

            • We have limited income to have a reversal

            • Julie Was Here

              The real effects are sterility. That’s it.

              Could be age. Could be having three kids. Could be going off hormonal birth control. Correlation =/= causation. Plenty of people who never had a tubal experience the same thing. As long as you just lazily make up an answer and stop looking, you’ll never find an accurate diagnosis.

              • We did have an answer, her twisted follopian tube and ovary caused the effects. As for the flushes we don’t know. We are only young, she is not pre menopausal or going through menopause. Our religion dont believe in birth control, so she was not on any. But after so many children and our limited incomes, we has to make choice, so we chose tubal ligation. From a man’s aspect, she feels just as good (sexually) as the day i met her. Having children did not make it feel like( a hotdog down a tube) i dont know if I quoted you correctly. We are not lazy, we went ot many doctors after her ovary removal. We still think after having this Tubal procedure caused her follopian tube to twist. You may think all you like, and why are you so defensive with some commenters posts? I ask you to not call me names or defamatory insults. I watched my wife go from an energetic woman, to a tired woman. We still work out together, but it is not the same. She is young, she had blood work done, and a pelvic Ultrasound done, all came back normal after he ovary surgery. We went down all avenues, iron B12, vitemins, nothing. You mat think Im crazy or my wife is crazy, but we are not. We wish we as a couple never had this surgery, I will love her no matter what ill inflicts her, she is still beautiful in my eyes. I just wish i could take this away from her.

              • From your comments i see you are defensive, i ask you not to be like that towards me. I love my wife and I want her to feel better. I just want some people to talk to about this. She is my world, so are my children. I am so upset seeing my wife like this, any kind words would be helpful..thank you

              • how was it discovered pls.. that your wife’s tube and ovary were twisted? what were her symptoms please.

                bless you and thank you to woman with this website


              • Julie Was Here

                If you actually cared about her, you wouldn’t diagnose her with fake conditions based on bullshit you read on the Internet written by know-nothing laymen who regret their tubals because they couldn’t think it through, and myths perpetuated by predatory reversal doctors. If you cared about her, you’d reject absurdities such as the fake PTLS so you could find the real cause of her problems. As long as you are satisfied with whatever answer you just make up, you will never find a real answer.
                And if you think I’m defensive, look at your comment and consider why you bothered to make it. You’re defensive. I’ve challenged your lazy non-answer and exposed a hole in your understanding.

              • I have been following this blog through my email..Tom if you need anyone to talk to please email me at is not a blog for you. Seems Julie has a vendetta against anyone who has any sort of symtoms. She sits on her computer wailing insults at people who show any sort of symptoms associated with a TL. My theory is, is that she regrets her decison and takes solace in others who post on here saying they love it. Meanwhile ..I feel for your wife..I had a TL, and it caused scar tissue, which followed up my tube and made my ovary sensitive..and im ovulating too much. BTW got a call 5 days ago saying i am scheduled to have my ovary removed and my uterus ..which was due to Fibroids. My og/gyn also agrees the tubal caused the scar body attacked the clamp that was on my tube ..which happens gyn said it seen it as a foriegn there is no surgery that is free of effects..and for this Julia..and yes i read every comment. You are a sorry excuse for a huma n being. If you think having a blog makes you big..i have a page on facebook that has over 2 mill subscribers..Let me make this clear..if you keep on down grading individuals because of prepared or flooding,,because frankly, if one could slap someone over WiFi, you would be black and blue..sorry excuse for a woman..

              • Julie Was Here

                If any of that bullshit you just said about me was true, I’d delete your comment, wouldn’t I? I don’t have a vendetta against anyone and you should be ashamed of yourself for pretending otherwise. I just have no patience for spreading medical myths nor am I willing to tolerate stupidity.

                If I remember correctly, I already told you everything there was to say some time ago. Go take your be a crazy person spouting insane conspiracies somewhere else, preferably a mental hospital where you can get proper treatment.

              • Exactly Julie..I dont know what is wrong with you..and why you have so much hatred..SS syndrome? I dont have a clue. But anyone who says “you are awsome Julie” are just as bad. Look at the way you talk to have a mouth of a sailor…no time to talk sensibly. all you do is spew your vile all over your thread..Too bad..posted your blog on pages on FB..they all think your nuts tbh. Probably work on your social skills a lil bit more,,do they give out blogs for free in mental asylums as a form of treatment these days? yeah..for all of those you talked trash to..FUCK YOU!!! And I’m sure many have wanted to say that to you, you ignorant bugger..Oh noes..i talked bad..:/ shame on me..must not look in your mirror too often..and Tom, thanx for the chat!..=D

              • Julie Was Here

                Oh, I’m rude? I guess I forgot its only ok when YOU do it, right?

                Bitch. Go be crazy somewhere else. Go have a tantrum with someone willing to baby your dumb ass.

      • Yes, it’s reasonable. My gyn said I had two separate conditions, not related to one another, that occurred simultaneously: post essure/ablation syndrome in my fallopian tubes, and uterine adenomyosis ( there is debate over whether they’re related or not among professionals). Uterine adenomyosis can occur with or without essure, or tubal ligation, and as my gyn said, wasn’t related to the fallopian tube condition. The post essure/ablation syndrome isn’t labeled as so only because it happens after having the procedure. It only occurs when fluid begins to clot and clump eventually, over time, at the site of the plugs in the tubes. If I didn’t have the coils, and subsequent plug development ( which is a necessary part of the 3 month sterilization process), then post essure/ablation syndrome wouldn’t have occurred. My body didn’t react well to this procedure, and it took time for the process to be noticed. When I asked my gyn if this could’ve happened had I gone the route of a tubal/ablation, she said yes. All fluids don’t simply become reabsorbed in the body. As a matter of fact, as the conditions became worse, my labs were flagged for low testosterone(could be from either condition). She explained the results as excess fluid containing hormones that couldn’t be absorbed. Once my partial hysterectomy was done, my hormone panel returned to normal levels.
        During my Nov 2012 visit, when I was diagnosed, and slated for surgery, I asked her for statistics. At that time she stated there weren’t any (not sure if that is for just essure or also encompasses tubal), and in her 16 years of practice, this was her first case.
        As I said, an ultrasound can confirm p.e.a.s/ptls , and the build-up at the plugs are not cysts. It’s fluid that clumps at the plugged site, and eventually builds up, therefore causing discomfort. It only occurs as a bodily response to these procedures. It’s not a failure of surgery, or iatrogenic, but a bodily response.

        • A bit of an addendum here in regards to my comment, “no stats” on post essure.She explained the condition is rare, and for essure/ablation being a relatively newer procedure, mass population stats weren’t easily available at that time.

          • Hello, you’re getting the comment because you commented on HikingHumanist.
            HikingHumanist is changing direction, and will soon be taking down many old posts. Why? Because we’re moving our childfree posting to a new blog! Hooray!
            If you enjoyed HikingHumanist’s childfree commentary, then you may like to visit Childfree Voices. Don’t forget to follow for updates!

  102. and when I say “Pro create” he will find another u absolutely think this will last forever?…this is funny..but go on….

    • Julie Was Here

      Do you think men like trying to do a windsock? How long until he finds someone younger, hotter, and whose bodies aren’t ruined by breeding?

  103. How is it the people who are being hateful are the ones who can’t seem to speak in coherent sentences? I don’t usually tend to rag on people for intelligence or communication of it (or the lack thereof)…BUT lol Just saying.

  104. Heather Adams

    You Rock* Tell it like it is …

  105. Maybe the symptoms are from C sections and not the tubal ligation? Most of the woman that complain of having hormonal related issues with tubals had kids – and many tubal ligations are preformed during C sections. So have any of these woman researched whether complications with a C section could cause this? Honest questions – I don’t know.

    I am on many childfree sites, lots of tubal ligation there, and have never seen any complaints or issues (that last more than a week or two).

    • Julie Was Here

      That’s what I think too. I have never heard of a CF person complain if any problems with tubals.

      Also, I have heard many women who have had kids complain to have the supposed symptoms of “PTLS,” even mothers who have NEVER had a tubal.

      Giving birth, however it’s done, is a horrific ordeal that all but destroys bodies. It’s dangerous and forever damaging. But because people worship natalism, they don’t want to admit it. Noooo it couldn’t have been squeezing out a melon sized human that caused the problem, it has to be a tubal. Eyerolls.

  106. 1 Year and 1 month….NO PTLS!!!! …..ooooh riiiiight it doesn’t even exist!!! Silly me…lol

    • Hello, you’re getting the comment because you commented on HikingHumanist.
      HikingHumanist is changing direction, and will soon be taking down many old posts. Why? Because we’re moving our childfree posting to a new blog! Hooray!
      If you enjoyed HikingHumanist’s childfree commentary, then you may like to visit Childfree Voices. Don’t forget to follow for updates!

  107. I’m glad that your Tl worked for you and you didn’t have any issues. Unfortunately that is not true for a small group of women that do have this procedure. I’ve had five children and knew I was done at 32. I got a TL because I wanted to be sure. I’ve had regular run of the mill periods no major cramping since I was 14. Like clockwork even on my children are born close to the same day just different month. I had the TL and with in two months my cycles were all over the place every two weeks, heavy cramping and ridiculous bleeding. It was like a CSI episode. I didn’t know a person could bleed that much and not die. Turns out I’ve developed estrogen dominance because my body stopped producing progesterone. Huh? Well yes they said you are peri menopausal, interesting concept since my maternal side aunts are still having regular periods at 50 and yet I’m in menopause at 32. They gave me an ablation to control the bleeding because the progesterone needed to counter my estrogen was making me sick to my stomach. Yeah no something isn’t right. Then my blood pressure was 218/120 mind you I’ve never had high blood pressure, not even once. So they put me on lisinopril to get that under control. Then I started developing kidney stones. Mind you once again never had any issues ever with my health. I don’t drink soda, I exercise, eat only organic no processed foods or gmo’s yet I now have some serious health issues out of no where. Yesterday diagnosed with multiple gallstones. Have to meet with a surgeon to have that removed next week. I don’t eat greasy food or use sugar substitutes so the only explanation I’ve gotten so far is estrogen dominance causes a change in the bile causing cholesterol based stones to build. Lovely so now I lose my gallbladder too. So yes there is something to be said for certain women having issues that can only be tied to that procedure. I’ve been the picture of health for 32 years, change nothing except this procedure and it’s been issue after issue.

    • Did you even read the comments to this post? You’re not special. 1. Lay people diagnosing themselves does not make medical fact. 2. Anecdotes are not evidence. 3. You know what messes with periods? Age and going off birth control. 4. You know what does damage to a body? Age and especially having 5 freaking kids (I have never heard of even just ONE childfree person claim PTLS.) 6. Did you know that even people who don’t have tubals develop health problems too? But sure, blame the tubal. Nevermind that there is no way a tubal could possibly do what you describe. If you have the sniffles, it’s PTLS. 7. If I wasn’t willing to disregard actual scientific evidence disproving PTLS for the wildly different “symptoms” claimed by other people with anecdotes, what makes you think you’d be special.

  1. Pingback: Sterilized On World Population Day « The Hiking Humanist

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