Countdown To Tubal: Post Tubal Ligation Syndrome?
2 days left before my tubal ligation!
Yesterday, I had my pre-admissions and pre-op appointments for the tubal ligation I’m scheduled to get on Monday. Due to a bit of chaos in scheduling (I fucked up) it was a bit of mess that had me scrambling back and fourth between different clinics in the hospital. Thankfully, that’s all out of the way and my TL is good to go! Yay!
I’m remembering how difficult it was to find accurate information on tubal ligation, having to navigate through all the anti-choice bullshit, sexism, and religious fear-mongering, much the same as I’m used to seeing in reference to abortion, or any other type of women’s rights. That much was easy to ignore.
One thing that struck me was what happened when I did a simple Google search on the procedure. Several of the links lead to sites that warned against something called Post Tubal Ligation Syndrome, almost all of which being on the sites of doctors and clinics who profit from tubal reversal. However, I couldn’t find one that cited any research on the subject. In this case, I’m very much reminded of the popular anti-choice myth of post abortion syndrome.
The rest were a few scattered personal anecdotes of people who claim to have PTLS (whether they were formally diagnosed or just diagnosed themselves is not clear,) many of which claiming to have wildly differing symptoms. Apparently, if there’s anything wrong with you, be it having periods, headaches, or a cough, and you’ve had a tubal ligation during your life time, the tubal must have caused it. (Ok, fine, here’s a list of the symptoms attributed to PTLS. It’s from a page advertising tubal reversal, of course, as I couldn’t find any legitimate medical organizations that didn’t that even mention PTLS. Interestingly, I haven’t even had my tubal yet and I already occasionally experience a few of the symptoms. What, does it all start early?)
I am a skeptic by nature. I believe all positive claims require positive evidence. This isn’t just a stance I take with religion, but with everything. I don’t doubt that most of these women do actually have the symptoms that they claimed, but I didn’t readily accept that a tubal ligation was a cause, mostly because it didn’t make any sense as the ovaries and uterus are left be, they’re just not connected by the Fallopian tubes. At the same time, I couldn’t completely dismiss the idea of a tubal ligation possibly causing problems for a minority of women, not being a doctor myself and all. It does seem to me though, that if people are going to claim something to be post tubal ligation syndrome, the symptoms should be consistent and there should be strong evidence to suggest that the symptoms of so-called PTLS are actually linked to having a tubal ligation.
So, I did my research. Not only could I not find a single thing to support the idea that a tubal ligation causes any of the symptoms supposedly caused by PTLS, but the studies I did find utterly debunked the idea of PTLS altogether. So I tried looking for medial organizations which recognized PTLS. Apart from Drs advertising tubal reversal, I couldn’t even find PTLS taken seriously anywhere. I asked a friend of mine who is studying to work in the medical field to check her copy of her ICD-9 (2008) to see if she could find post tubal ligation syndrome/post tubal sterilization syndrome listed. It should have been between “Post-traumatic stress disorder” (309.81) and “Post-typhoid abscess” (002.0), but it just was not there.
I made a comment stating my disbelief in PTLS on a website I like (although I don’t always like the more insular commenters,) My OB Said What. A woman reported menstrual changes to her doctor, who told her that they were not caused by her tubal ligation and recommended hormonal birth control to control her periods, to which another commenter respond in outrage that Drs should warn women of post tubal ligation syndrome. I had heard something similar from my own OB/GYN while discussing tubal ligation with him. He told me that some women use hormonal BC to control their periods after having a tubal. It doesn’t seem to have anything to do with the tubal itself, it’s just that not all women have regular periods all their lives without BC. A tubal ligation will “cure” fertility, but not being female. This is what I talked about in my comment, in which I also cited a study demonstrating that tubal ligations are not linked to menstrual abnormality, in response to another commenter who was happy to throw the term Post Tubal Ligation Syndrome around.
Almost immediately, I had an entire mob of women telling me how awful I was. I’m rude, anti-child, and have “blind-faith” in the evil medical establishment. That’s what I was told for citing a scientific study published in a peer-reviewed medical journal, rather than just mindlessly joining the bandwagon in blaming tubals for symptoms X, Y, and Z, just like the similarly misinformed blame life-saving vaccines for autism, and abortion care for breast cancer or the fictitious post abortion syndrome. It’s as if they thought deferring to actual doctors on medical issues was akin to admitting to being a minion of Satan. What was really telling, I thought, was when the people who apparently believed in PTLS, as part of scathing replies to me, said things along the lines of “I hope you don’t suffer PTLS.” If I can judge from whatever tone text may be said to have, it seems to me that they meant the very opposite of what they typed. What lovely people! I really want to take their unfounded claims seriously now!
I replied once again that if these people can point out any flaws in the study I provided, or can provide their own data in support of the validity of PTLS, then I, as someone who will be getting a tubal ligation in a few days (WOO-HOO!) would sincerely like to see it. Surely these people accusing me of “blind faith” have some hard facts to support their position, as I do. So far, I’ve gotten plenty of unkind responses, even outright bullying behavior, yet no one has risen to the challenge. I wonder why.
As of the time of writing, I disbelieve in PTLS, as there is no verifiable evidence for it, and a considerable amount of evidence against it. I will be prepared to change my mind should new evidence lead me to do so. I don’t think that’s likely though. PTLS seems to be a hoax that money-grubbing doctors are happy to promote, and a condition that non-medical professionals choose to diagnose themselves with.
So what about the symptoms people claim to have? Again, I don’t doubt that at least most of the people who claim to have symptoms actually do have them, I just doubt that they’re caused by tubal ligation and it makes any sense to call it PTLS. As the supposed symptoms are so varied, I wonder if many of the women are afflicting with completely different conditions from each-other, and all just self-diagnose themselves as having PTLS, which would be quite alarming as the real cause would continue to be ignored. It could be menopause (compare this list of menopause symptoms to the list of PTLS symptoms,) effects of coming off hormonal birth control or giving birth, effects of chemo therapy, or primary ovarian insufficiency.
Or maybe it’s a psychosomatic issue, wherein stress or feeling of regret manifest in a way that affects bodily processes. That would make sense as many of the women who do get tubal reversal go on to have additional children. No one I know of who thought through their decision carefully claims to have PTLS. I know many women who have had tubal ligation, and not one of them reports any issues. I’m active on two different childfree message boards and on each of them there exists a significant portion of the membership who have had tubal ligation. None of them report any issues.
At yesterday’s pre-op, I asked my OB/GYN about PTLS. He agreed with me, for whatever that’s worth. So no, I’m not worried about getting post tubal ligation syndrome, as a few woman on MOBSW who think they know more than doctors merely because they’ve had kids, hope I will won’t. I don’t believe that PTLS is a legitimate condition. If new evidence contradicts my understanding, I’ll happily change my position. Until then though, I’m not buying this bullshit and look gleefully forward to finally being fertility-free Monday.
Edit 02/16/12
Since the upload of this video, people arguing for the existence of PTLS being a real and correctly named condition have argued that it may be caused by changes in blood flow to the ovaries. Well, that’s odd. You would think that loss of blood flow would affect everyone in about the same way. Still, I looked into it anyway.
The authors found four types of arterial blood supply, which are shown in the illustration.
So, as you can see, the ovaries are supplied by the ovarian and uterine arteries, neither of which pass through the fallopian tubes. As for the small blood vessels that branch off the ovarian artery and supply the fallopian tubes, none are of significant contribution to the ovaries, as far as these diagrams show, anyway.
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Posted on 2011/07/09, in Atheism, childfree, Countdown To Tubal, Diary, Feminism, Prochoice, Science and tagged atheism, atheist, birth control, childfree, countdown to tubal, feminism, feminist, free thinker, free thinking, pro-choice, prochoice, science, sterilization, tubal, tubal ligation, women. Bookmark the permalink. 69 Comments.
You have to look at the age range of women who get tubal ligations (or other sterilization procedures). You will find that the majority who get them are in their mid-to-late 30s or early 40s. When I went for my Essure consultation, my gynecologist made it a a point to tell me that some women have the procedure and then mistake normal peri-menopausal symptoms for some sort of horrible side effect from the procedure. It isn’t; it’s NORMAL age-related changes! You would have them regardless of whether or not you had a tubal or Essure.
I had Essure when I was 39. On cue,I’ve had bizarre problems erupt right before I turned 40. These weren’t even problems I would associate with my reproductive organs; they are mainly digestive issues. Still, I had one doctor (a gastroenterologist) suggest that all of my issues were stemming from depression because I haven’t had children. (?!!!) Yes, I found another doctor, but all of them have made some offhanded comment about my choice to be sterilized, which is BULLSHIT.
Women who don’t want children are, in general, regarded with suspicion in the medical community. Something must be wrong with us. We’re probably mentally ill in some way, which causes us 1) not to want to do our womanly duty and breed or 2) makes us crazy after we’ve willfully sterilized ourselves (this Post Tubal Ligation Syndrome thing). Be prepared to explain yourself whenever you need medical attention for ANYTHING, even if it’s not related to your uterus or ovaries. From here on out, your entire opinion on what is wrong with your body is suspect because you’re one of those crazy childless women who went and tinkered with her lady parts in an “unnatural” way.
How are you not already on my blogroll? Well, you are now.
Yeah, I agree, many of the supposed symptoms of PTLS are the same as those for pre menopause, which is a point I made in my post. Hell the symptoms of PTLS are so vague that they could be fucking anything, really.
I’m sorry that doctor was such a douche to you. He’s a sexist douche and probably also too lazy to look for the real source of your problem, or just doesn’t want to admit that he has no fucking clue.
It’s amazing how many people view women as nothing more than breeding machines, and even more disturbing when even women accept such a harmful view.
I think that you are being a bit close minded. I have found that most people who seem to react well to birth control and pregnancy and Iud’s also seem to do well with the tubal ligation.
I became deathly sick from birth control pills and tried every kind possible and none worked. I have struggled with extreme homonal changes every month a few days before my period for years. The doctor has put me on medicine that I take the week before it comes and then I can stop the day after it starts and I am fine.
I tried an IUD once against my mother in laws addice that it would hurt me and cause damage. I did it anyway and I bleed for 3 months straight with terrible pain. I had to have it removed. Afterwards I got pregnant 3 times and miscarried. Then I had a baby die in the womb and it was removed D & C. I talked to a specialist who said that even though it is not talked about a lot, it is common for the scar tissue from the IUD, to cause these problems. After the D & C I was able to become pregnant. I was told that the scrapping of the Uterus fixed my problem and removed the scar tissue caused by the IUD.
I have given birth to 3 children and have one on the way since this. I have decided that I am finished having children but I am terrified of the consequences of the tubal ligations. I have read that there is a decress in blood flow in the capilaries due to the scaring and this often the cause of the post tubal ligation syndrom.
Since I am very sensitive to hormones and changes in my body I am trying to find out if there are certain tubal ligation proceedures that may be less damaging to my capilaries and tissue, I want to do the least amount of tampering with the enviornment hoping that I won’t run into more problems.
I have friends and family who seem to do fine with many different proceedures but I know that my birth mother did not. So I want to be as cautious as possible.!
I weep for the sake of humanity when basing conclusions on evidentiary support is to be called “closed minded.” As it is, there is plenty of evidence against PTLS, and no evidence for it. Yet, I wrote in my piece that until any evidencary support for PTLS can be found, I am left unconvinced. Um, I’m being pretty open-minded here, only saying that I’m not convinced but would revisit the matter should new evidence come to light. What’s your idea of open-mindedness? Blindly accepting anything you’re told without evidence, or even despite evidence against it? What a way to live.
There’s been no evidence whatsoever that tubal ligation has any affect whatsoever on hormone levels. None. But if you’re really worried about, you might look into non-surgical means of sterilization like Essure and Adiana. Hope that helps.
Very nicely written Blog post…
I do however have to pop on here and give my story…
I was 25 when I had my tubal ligation/ resection done, after my 4th child was born, and immediately noticed severe issues after. 2 days after surgery,My liver gallbladder and spleen were inflamed, and VERY swollen, I went back to the hospital where i had it done, and had a hew follow up test and everything showed fine except the ultrasound of the above mention organs. Meanwhile, I lost my milk supply (which was never a issue in any other pregnancy and I had the exact same both/ epidural etc) and started having super bad anxiety attack, which I attributed to possible post par tum depression etc… anyway months past, and I start losing my hair and crap… went to the DR and had some tests (hormones cycle day 3 labs etc) and sure enough my levels were off, especially for being almost 26 at this point.Time went on and I kept having more issues, I stumbled upon PTLS info, and I had almost everyone. I again went back to the DR’s with some of the new info and had more tests to rule out any other cause. My OB disagreed with me but my primary DR was behind me all the way. We went over possible treatments, but i was unable to use most of them due to family history. As time went on, I research having a reversal, and just shy of 2 years after my ligation, went and had it reversed. I am now 4 months post reversal and have 90% of the issues i faced with the PTLS are GONE… if there is no such thing? how do you explain life altering symptoms that came on suddenly after the tubal, and have medical tests to prove it…then suddenly vanish after a reversal? Psychological? I think NOT… My blood tests can even prove it…and my cycles, are back to normal!! and I can prove that too as I have been charting for over 16 months to show the difference in before and after! there may not me that much studies done on PTLS at the moment but that will change soon!
I really do hope that you do NOT end up with it, and it hold up as a positive form of birth control, I wish I had had it that easy for sure!
Oh and just to add, my mother had the SAME thing happen and it threw her into early menopause…although then she had NO idea why or what was going on… hindsight is always 20/20…also, it would be good if you went back over some of the studies and really researched them a bit.. i have found them to be a bit misleading when you get down to the fine print…for instance, the “CREST” study was done primarily to study the failure rates of the ligation’s, not side effects, that is not a very accurate study at all, though it seems to be the one DR;s claim to quote the most…Just food for thought!
Have a nice day!
I’m very sorry you went through that, however anecdotes are not proof.
Why would severing Fallopian tubes alter hormones? Nicking the uterus or ovaries might, but it’s my understanding that the Fallopian tubes have nothing to do with hormone production or reception. To back up this point one study which I’m pretty sure I’ve cited, stated that tubal ligation don’t appear to cause any significant hormonal changes. I don’t know what CREST study you’re referring to.
If a woman lost her ovaries, the hormonal impact would be measurable, and would be more or less the same for all women who had that happen to them. Why would only a small minority of women report the claimed PTLS symptoms after a tubal, while the vast majority do not? I’m aware that different people’s bodies work differently, but our organs still do the same things. And why wouldn’t a successful reversal fix ALL of the symptoms?
My question is, can you PROVE that the tubal ligation was responsible for the problems you claim? Correlation is NOT causation. Since you’ve recommended I do research, despite the fact that I clearly have, do you have any research that supports PTLS?
I am 34, no history of early menopause, and never took birth control. I have had 5 children and at the age of 26 I had a tubal ligation. One month prior my sister had the same procedure done and she had no pain. When I had mine I was in excruciating pain. I used all my pain meds up. Over the years since then I have had more and more symptoms come up. Cramping pains are like the beginning to middle pains of labor, I have no sex drive,(before this I always wanted sex), and my legs itch to the point of bleeding. No one in my family has these problems. Mt point is, too many people are reporting these problems. Did u ever stop to think these doctors that perform the tubal lirigations could possibly be in it for the money.
Of course doctors work for money. I imagine that you do too, assuming you’re employed. Everyone has to eat.
Concern over profit is all the more reason to suspect doctors’ motives. Here’s the thing, I don’t know of any doctor who acts like a salesman about tubal ligation (hell, most people have to jump through hoops just to find an doctor who would agree to do it!) except when that doctor is selling reversal. And that’s just the point. There’s no actual evidence linking tubal ligation to so-called “post tubal ligation syndrome.” The only places where I could find support for the existence of the condition is on the websites of doctors who sell reversals, and they offer no evidence.
Apart from that, all I have are the personal anecdotes of regretted who self-diagnose themselves. Funny, they all seem to be mothers. Often of some high number of kids, too. Just an observation. I’ve never heard of even so much as one single childfree person report any such issues, and I looked. In fact, MOST women, the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of women who have tubal ligations, don’t have any problems afterwards. It’s not as if one woman’s body will work so dramatically different from another’s that severing the fallopian tube would have completely different effects. There’s certainly no practical reason that simply severing the fallopian tubes would cause any issues, as all they do is transport eggs. In a TL, the hormone-producing parts still do their jobs.
Point is, the diagnosis of laymen is not compelling. My point about the meno symptoms was to demonstrate that the symptoms ascribed to PTLS are common anyway, and so widely varied that different self-diagnosers are make wildly different claims. I guess tubal ligation are an easy thing to blame, doctors are easy people to blame. Meanwhile, the real problems, whatever they might be, go unaddressed. Could be menopause. Could be a complication resulting from pregnancy and birth. Could be a complication from the tubal ligation procedure (in which case the tubal ligation – the severing/blocking of the fallopian tubes was not the cause, so it’s dishonest to ball it post tubal ligation syndrome.) Or it could be any number of things. As long as people keep blaming being sterilized itself, they’ll probably never find out.
Meanwhile, peer-reviewed scientific studies has blown holes in the supposed link between tubal ligations, and “PTLS,” as I demonstrated in my post. I consider that far more trustworthy.
Incidentally, I had my tubal at 22. I’ve had no problems so far. I didn’t even need to take a single one of the pain meds that I was prescribed. Sure, the air in my abdomen hurt, but it wasn’t that bad and went away after a few days. I’ve had no problems, post tubal. But then, I already knew that I wouldn’t.
The long and short of it is, I don’t beleive you. I beleive science.
Oh, and you might see a doctor, a real one, about your issues.
When I say in it for the money, I mean only doing out of greed not for the right reason. No I do not work, my husband does, I am in school full time.
I didn’t have to jump through any hoop, in fact the 1st doctor I went to agreed to do it. If u are the right age and have had the right amount of children it’s not a hoop jumper to get it done.
As far as it being easy to get a reversal, I don’t know because I haven’t tried, but I can see why it would be easy. No one has complained about it!!!!
Evidence? All you have done is read articles, and blogs. How about going through it, like I and others have? These doctors say they have the research but the doctors that do the reversals have very satisfied customers.
You say it’s women with children only having these problems, I’m not sure about that. Maybe it does have something to do with that and if it is then that means its a combination of the both.
I never said I knew for sure what my problem is, but you I would not take advice from. You are definitely not God. If you are a scientist, then I definitely would not take your advice. Scientist change their minds constantly. The world of science us everchanging everyday. How many commercials do you see promoting prescription drugs? Then tell me how many commercials you see suing these prescription drug companies?
All I’m saying is we don’t really know for sure about anything, can we? Don’t be so set minded and stuck in your ways at such a young age, live life, be a little more openeded minded! Don’t have any regrets!!
“If u are the right age and have had the right amount of children it’s not a hoop jumper to get it done.” And this is decided by someone other than myself, because…?
Here’s a thought, if the doctors were pushing tubals for money, why would they turn away anyone?
It’s amazing how I can cite scientific studies, RIGHT IN THE FUCKING BLOG POST ITSELF, but you can pretend that my only research was reading blogs. Willful ignorance, much?
You’re right, I’m not god. I never claimed to be either, so I don’t know why you think that you’re making some kind of a point here. Funny thing on that note, god isn’t real either.
Don’t trust science because it changes? So you’re saying that not being closed-minded, but basing your conclusions on evidence and changing your views if evidence compels you to do so is a bad thing? And then you accuse me of not being open-minded?
Lady, that’s just fucking crazy.
It seems I hit a soft spot. They turn them away because it is the law sweet heart in some states and they do not want to be sued later on down the road. I said you also got your information from articles; I did not argue that. What I do know is you do not know for your self if any of it is true, right? There is no way that you can. I am not being close minded, so you say. I just do not trust science as well as you do. I have lived and seen more than your little heart could ever handle.
You say God is non-existent? How do you know this? Can you prove this? Oh, you articles prove this, I forgot. You might want to actually experience and talk to people, and not make assumptions.
God bless you sweetie, I really mean that. I hope that your eyes open soon.
I am sorry if I got you upset, that was not my intention. I did not curse at you. I hope your days are filled with laughter!
“Sweet heart”? “Sweetie?” Don’t talk down to me and pretend it’s not your intention to make me upset. “I have lived and seen more than your little heart could ever handle.” As an Iraq war veteran, I call bullshit.
No, you didn’t hit a soft post, I just can’t take adults seriously when they say they don’t trust science because that’s the same as saying that they don’t trust reality. It was especially annoying that your criticism of science was that it a process that requires an open mind, all the while accusing me of needing to have one myself… because I base my conclusions on scientific study. That just makes no sense.
Here’s the thing about science, it requires that one must back up what they say. The burden of proof rests upon the person making the positive claim. Much like one claiming the existence of a god must provide empirical evidence to demonstrate this, so would someone claiming that “post tubal ligation syndrome” was a real thing and linked directly to tubal ligations rather than anything else. From what I’ve been able to gather, neither groups has any evidence of their respective claims. That which can be proposed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
You accuse me of making assumptions as a criticism, yet that’s exactly what you demand that I do by taking both the idea of god and PTLS seriously, not only without evidence, but in the face evidence to the contrary.
Here’s a thought, apart from the anecdotes of a few women who see fit to diagnose themselves, have you got any solid, empirical evidence linking tubal ligations to the thing you call post tubal ligation syndrome? Some scientific studies, medical research? If you do, I’d love to see it.
Edit: I can’t believe I forgot to add this, but, no, it’s NOT the law that prevents OBs from doing their job and sterilizing people who ask. Sure, some states, not all, have legal restrictions, but I doubt any of them are an age 40 minimum. No, doctors frequently refuse tubals even when the patients can legally have one. You know why? Because they’re not out for money, they’re out for control.
You know the doctors that are out for money? The ones that care nothing for scientific study.
I made no demands of you to do anything, how can I put demands on someone I do not know. I simply said you should be open minded. As far as the names, that is just the way I talk I am from the south. You have your thoughts and I have mine.
My feelings are you should only speak from experience. Since you do not know what these women and I are going through then you should not make comments about it.
Look, love one another is the motto i live by, and even though I do not know you I still love you. Like I said I have lived and I also have been humbled many times in my life. Be quick to listen be slow to speak.:) The older you get the wiser you get. You have to live a long life before you even begin to know what it is about. I do not take advice from very many people at all. If I do it is from an elder in my church whom i see is very wise. She may not be perfect but who is? She has been married for 55 years and is led by God. I know, I know you do not believe in him.
I do want to tell you a story that happened to me. When I was 2 years old I was in the orange grove with my mom while she was picking the oranges. She came down from the ladder and felt my head; I was running a fever. She rushed me to the hospital and the doctor thought that my appendix were infected so he took them out. mean while fluid was building around my heart. (the doctor was drunk during the operation and used unsterilized tools). My mom knew this because another doctor told her and my father.
I was then shipped to Gainesville Florida, Shands hospital. There surgery was performed to drain the fluid.The doctors told my mom there was a big chance that I would not make it. My mother was not a christian then, but she prayed and told God that if he saved me she would get saved and got to church. When I came out of surgery I told my mom and dad everything that was going on and I described the entire room to them even the smell. The doctors told my mom that I died for a few moments on the operating table, but my eyes did not open at all.
I just wanted to share this with you, and hope you live a peaceful loving life and you are happy.:) God bless you
1. Ok, you’re talking down to me again. Here’s a newsflash for you: older =/ wiser. Get off your high horse.
2. I tell you that I require evidence, not subjective anecdotes and what do you give me? A subjective anecdote. What, did you think this one was special?
3. You did not die. Quit being dramatic. Maybe your heart faltered, but that isn’t what makes one dead. Death means cessation of brain function, which is permanent.
4. If your mom praying and then you surviving is evidence for your god, the every story of someone surviving after a relative prayed to a different god, or survived after no one prayed at all, or died despite prayer to you god, is evidence against your god.
5. Thank those money-grubbing, science-trusting doctors you survived. Give credit where it’s due. It was people, it was science that saved you.
Of all the things in the human heart, anger can be one of the most intense, destructive, and unhealthy emotions that we can experience. If not handled in the proper way, it can have drastic life-changing consequences. Left unresolved, anger creates an intense desire to destroy something.
Proverbs 15:18 A hot-tempered man stirs up strife, but he who is slow to anger quiets contention.
May God be with you my dear. You will need him one day, trust me. I will keep you in my prayers.
Very nicely written Blog post…
I do however have to pop on here and give my story…
I was 25 when I had my tubal ligation/ resection done, after my 4th child was born, and immediately noticed severe issues after. 2 days after surgery,My liver gallbladder and spleen were inflamed, and VERY swollen, I went back to the hospital where I had it done, and had a few follow up tests and everything showed fine except the ultrasounds of the above mentiond organs. Meanwhile, I lost my milk supply (which was never a issue in any other pregnancies, and I had the exact same birth/ epidural etc) and started having super bad anxiety attacks, which I attributed to possible postpartum depression etc… anyway months past, and I start losing my hair and crap… went to the DR and had some tests (hormones, cycle day 3 labs etc) and sure enough my levels were off, especially for being almost 26 at this point.Time went on and I kept having more issues, I stumbled upon PTLS info, and I had almost symptom. I again went back to the DR’s with some of the new info and had more tests to rule out any other causes. My OB disagreed with me but my primary DR was behind me all the way and agreed it could be from the ligation.. We went over possible treatments, but I was unable to use most of them due to family history. As time went on, I researched having a reversal, and just shy of 2 years after my ligation, went and had it reversed. I am now 4 months post reversal and have 90% of the issues I faced after the tubal, with the PTLS are GONE… if there is no such thing? how do you explain life altering symptoms that came on suddenly after the tubal..then suddenly vanish after a reversal? Psychological? I think NOT… My blood tests can even prove it…and my cycles, are back to normal!! and I can prove that too as I have been charting for over 16 months to show the difference in before and after! there may not me that much studies done on PTLS at the moment but that will change soon!
I really do hope that you do NOT end up with it, and it holds up as a positive form of birth control, I wish I had had it that easy for sure!
Oh and just to add, my mother had the SAME thing happen and it threw her into early menopause…although then she had NO idea why or what was going on at the time… hindsight is always 20/20…also, it would be good if you went back over some of the studies and really researched them a bit.. I have found them to be a bit misleading when you get down to the fine print…for instance, the “CREST” study was done primarily to study the failure rates of the ligation’s, not side effects, that is not a very accurate study at all, for determine if PTLS exists, though it seems to be the one DR;s claim to quote the most…Just food for thought!
Have a nice day!
I’m hesitant how to even begin this post, because I am not at all trying to start an argument. I came across your blog while googling ‘post tubal ligation syndrome and reversals’.
I’ve scanned briefly through your blog before posting this comment, just to try and have an idea of who you are. I’m very much impressed on how well you know yourself, and how well thought out your life decisions seem to be. Of course, I have my story that I just feel like I want to share.I must admit, your post is very impressive. In fact, when I did EXTENSIVE research prior to my tubal ligation in 2009, I came to the same conclusions you have.
I have two children. Neither was planned. I was 23 when I had my oldest, and 25 with the second. When my second was 5 months old, I had my tubal ligation. I knew when I was pregnant with my second that I didnt want more children after him, but I didnt feel like a tubal ligation was a decision that a pregnant person should make. After I gave birth, the research began, I was assured this tubal ligation would have no effect on me hormonally. I was never on birth control (obviously), never had any previous health issues, and never regreted making the decision to not have any more children. Just a few days shy of my 26th birthday, i had the procedure. It was no big deal. I was back to work in two days.
The VERY first cycle after my tubal I had really bad acne breakouts, I’ve never had acne, aside from one here and there as as teenager. I was near bleeding to death, with severe cramping. I had assumed this was just going to get better with time. No big deal, nothing I couldn’t live with a few days a month. I’m sure you know how the story will go, time went on, sypmtom after sypmtom was added. The days of feeling crappy just began to increase. In August of this year, almost exactly two years post-tubal, I got really sick, it felt like anxiety, but it consumed me. I was feeling almost out of myself, memory was slipping, tired all the time, severe dizzy spells, headaches. I went to several doctors, had extensive blood work…. they couldn’t find anything, Concidentally, my annual papsmear was due, so I went to my OBGYN. I told her what was going on and she told me she wanted to check my hormone levels. The results were not good, My hormones are totally whacked. Utlrasounds, more tests, etc. Nothing was really diagnosed. I started some natural hormone therapy, it helped a little. I’ve been doing that since.
I began researching again, and, just like you, cannot find a definative answer on PTLS. But something is going on with me. I dont know how, or why, or how to explain how this would make any sense. Obviously, my hormones are the culprit, but why have they gone haywire, I have no family history of this… the doctors have no explanation. I have a tubal reversal scheduled. I cannot backup my decision with any medical research and I’m coming out of pocket $6,000 for it. Sounds to me like such a stupid decision, I KNOW. But what else do I do. This decision is based soley on women like the one above, who I’ve read about and reached out to. I’m not going to the doctor who is plastered all over the internet. That did creep me out a little. It’s gonna be a really expensvie trial and error for me. In my opinion, if I have the reversal, and go back to normal… well then something was there. Be it, PTLS, or like you said “… could be a complication from the tubal ligation procedure (in which case the tubal ligation – the severing/blocking of the fallopian tubes was not the cause, so it’s dishonest to call it post tubal ligation syndrome)”
I’m googling these things trying to find someone who says. “i felt (blah blah blah), thought i had PTLS, had a reversal, and still feel like shit”… but I can’t. All of these women have the same life changing ‘experience’ as I, and the reversal magically fixed them.
I know it is ridiculous, but I would love to hear your thoughts on this…. Do you think it is a ridicoulous leap to spend that kind of money on a surgical procedure that may or may not fix a problem that may or may not exist?
Horomone levels can be changed by a lot of things. Going off birth control, damage to the endocrine system, menopause… lots of things. Did the doctor not give you an opinion on the cause?
Tell you what, when you get that reversal, you come back here and tell me if it helped.
I saw two OB’s since all of these issues. I was not on birth control, ever. Initially, they thought Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome. I had to do and insuline resistance test and ultrasound, That was ruled out. Both went on to say how my family history, and my history, do not lead them to believe I would be in early menopause. I asked both about PTLS. One said, no way. One said it’s controversial (obvioulsly). Last visit I had with both of them (seperatly) each just basically looked at my chart, shaking their heads… gave me no answer. just gave me treatment options. That is when I began my reversal research. I found a doctor in my area who does reversals. His staff, and he, say that they’ve seen many of these cases and that the patients report tremendous improvements afterwards. But again, why would they tell me otherwise? I’m giving them $6000. At this point, its a gamble I’m willing to take. If the reversal does not work, then there has got to be something else seriously wrong with me…. and I just don’t know how all of these doctors would be missing it.
There are so many women who claim to have these things happening to them, which are eerily similar to whats going on with me….but I’m the kinda person who needs to know through my own experience before I can be so sure about something.. I’ll be sure to let you know how it goes.
I hope all continues to go well with you in regards to your surgery.
I had PTLS,for almost 2 years. I went for a reversal in march of this year… I am now 100%(minus normal PMS stuff you get with cycles, and very mild) symptom free. The reversal was 100% worth every penny… I wish I had known what a tubal would have done to me… I had almost every symptom on the list, it was terrible! ( mind you I was off all hormonal birth control 3+years before getting pregnant and having my tubal done, and experienced no ill effects before the tubal was performed, but noted immediate effects/side effects of PTLS after the tubal was done). I even asked the OB who performed it, BEFORE the surgery, if there were any chances it would affect me hormonally… she said NO…I then went back to the same practice a year later and saw a different partner in the practice, complaining of symptoms, and she told me it was “possible”, and to wait another year or so before further testing. I began my research, and got educated on PTLS… I spent months trying herbal remedies etc, but those would still only mask symptoms. I wanted to solve the problem at it’s root…anyway, reversal, totally worth it, and would do it again in a heart beat….I wont sit here and pretend that I know exactly why or how it causes issues in certain women, but I can tell you PTLS is real, and can happen to anyone. There are many things DR’s have yet to learn about the human body, so I am sorry i cannot give you the hypothesis of an amazing scientific break through in fertility, but I can share my personal experience… take it from someone who was skeptical of things like this before hand…it’s not a good thing to make fun of, or de-validate.
I am sorry for anyone suffering with this horrible problem…
Meg, may I ask did you lose your sex drive?
So let me just say that I have not read any other comments,but I did read your article. I cannot speak to you or other peoples experience, but there has been a very real change in my health since I had my tubal 9 years ago, and I am JUST NOW certain it has something to do with my procedure. I had my tubal 6 weeks after having my 3 rd child at age 26. I immediately noticed extremely heavy periods,that I have until this day. I did make that connection between my altered menstrual cycle immediatley, but was told that was normal and to take birth control pills..the reason I got the tubal to begin with was to avoid this. I then began the biggest battle of mylife…a sever ,chronic,debilitating depression, that almost 9 years later I still battle. Dr’ s chalked it up to post pardom and my first script for an antidepressant was written. I now have 3 for depression alone. Dr says its due to stress, so I get one 4 that too. I also have stabbing pain and swelling mid cycle, when I ovulate…since the fist period after tubal.Dr says take motrin… not uncommon( but only after my tubal?).serious stomach issues..Ulcerated stomach…take zantc as needed.I have crazy night sweats…joint pains, Dr says due to meds…although none of mine have that as a side effect. All random symptoms…all ” treated” , none improving.I was perfectly healthy before this surgery, although I could remember how long I’ve felt this bad,I am just realizing that it has been exactly as long as I’ve had my tubal. Then I starting reading about post tubal ligation syndrome.,and I almost cried. A name for my experience. The final thing that convinced me that this was completely real was actually my mom. She had me at 38, youngest of 4.Immediatly got her tubes tied. Began having stomach problems ,that she still has, early menopause, and a hysterectony at 41. I asked when her health symptoms began, and “surprise”…immediatly after her tubal. I’m just here to share my story. Im not against the procedure..Im finished having children,but this is a real condition that can happen, and women should know up front,with a consent disclosure.
You had the tubal after having a child? And you’re sure it’s not related to the pregnancy… how?
Ulcers? The supposed symptoms for PTLS are inconsistent as hell, but that’s a new one.
Have you had a real diagnosis, or have you just diagnosed yourself based on the stories of others?
Look, I don’t doubt that you’re going through what you’re going through, I just doubt that it has anything to do with Fallopian tubes being severed. There’s no logical reason that would affect anything, or why it would only affect some women and not others considering that the mechanism is exactly the same. And statistical data doesn’t support PTLS.
If women should be made to sign consent forms warning against PTLS, PTLS must first be proved to exist and have consistent symptoms and a reasonable correlation between it and tubal ligation. But it just isn’t the case.
It is my opinion, based on much research, and having a tubal ligation myself, that PTLS just does not make sense. Maybe I’m wrong, but until I see some of the same sort of solid evidence that we would expect for any other condition, I just don’t buy it. Anecdotes from laymen who diagnose themselves, who can’t even agree on what the symptoms are, are not evidence of anything.
This post had gotten me a lot of criticism, as of late. I never meant for this post to offend anyone. This was the writing of a young woman who was about to undergo a tubal ligation and, before the procedure, was confronted with the concept of PTLS, and had to do research on the subject to see if I might have to reconsider surgery. If there was any merit to PTLS, I sure as hell wanted to know about it! But I found none.
Interesting post! I’d never heard of PTLS. I wonder if there’s also a claim of PVS for men.
It’s possible, but I’ve not heard of it.
I’ve been on the internet for ~20 years.
There are men & women who are part of “ministries” whose sole idea is to spread the idea that sterilizations have horrible side effects.
People are strange sometimes.
I had my tubal when I was 27. I was sore for a couple days, but no issues at all afterwards. It was pretty much a non-thing thing for me.
That seems to be what I find most common, despite many of the comments here.
That link you posted about the supposed symptoms of tubal ligation came from a doctor’s office that seems to pride itself on being able to reverse any sterilization method. It just seems sketch to me. I know fr me though, even though I’m fairly sure I’m done having children, the idea that I had surgery to alter my body would freak me out too much So once having another baby becomes out of the question, I’m having essure or something similar done.
For what it’s worth, my ex roommate had a tubal when she was 30 and now she’s 39 and felt some pain in her abdomen, not bad or anything, but bothersome. I took her to the ER and an ultrasound confirmed that she’d had some kind of recanalization and her tubal might not be as effective.
The only resource I could find about the symptoms of “post tubal ligation syndrome” was from those sorts of unreliable sites. I could find no information on PTLS from any legitimate medical source. The reason for that is self-evident, I believe.
I would think that having kids would do a lot more to your body than being sterilized. I was going to get Essure originally, but after looking at it, I decided tubal ligation was better.
As for your friend, ware her tubes cut, or simply tied or clamped?
HAHAHAHA! All the anecdotal religious mumbo-jumbo from poorly written, moo cows with a bazillion kids and the so called ‘PTLS’ is such horse poop! I had my tubal ligation done with felshie clips and a uterine ablation done in one go, last year when I was 27.
Other then the few weeks to heal, I never had one problem. In fact having my reproductive freedom in my own hands, so as not to impact the human population is the most freeing experience in my life. (And if I had become pregnant, that parasite would be gone via abortion. My life, my body, my choice and no one else’s.)
Julie you write solid posts with scientific backing, all these other posts I have read are dumb. It feels like women trying to undermine other women for being cf, atheist, and sterilized.
“And if I had become pregnant, that parasite would be gone via abortion. My life, my body, my choice and no one else’s.”
THIS!
If the doctors who do tubals and the doctors reverse tubals took the time to study the effects on women, clearly we would all have some real answers! That is the problem, no one has studied it because no one cares. A few years ago people were told that fibromyalgia was all in their heads, and nothing could be done about it, however now research is being done and people are getting treated for it! I hope that those that are suffering can find the help they need, and for those that don’t suffer, count yourselves as the lucky ones. peace.
Ok, first off, what in the world makes you think that OB/GYNs don’t study the effects of tubals? Really, what? Being actual DOCTORS and all, it’s their JOB to know. If you’re going to accuse them of failing in that respect, you’d better have some evidence in support of your claim. Yeah, actually, tubal ligation is studied. And it’s studied quite a lot. As is sterilization in general, which has lead medical professionals to pioneer new methods. Presently, there are numerous ways to perform tubal ligation, as well as relatively new methods of female sterilization. And you know what? Each and every single method is subject to intense study of all effects, short and long term. Just because the evidence doesn’t support the conclusion that you want does NOT mean that research is not done! If you want to claim to know more than doctors and scientists, then you’d better be one.
Second, just because X turns out to be true, does not mean that Y is. There was once a time when people dismissed the existence of the platypus as a hoax. However, no one points to the platypus actually being real as an argument in favor of belief in unicorns, declaring that naturalist are lazy for having not found the horned-horses yet.
As for “PTLS,” there is no definition for PTLS’s symptoms, any and all of which can be found with a plethora of other, unrelated conditions, and little consistency in symptoms by people claiming to have PTLS. You have to define X to give X a name! And as for the people claiming to have PTLS, they’re only diagnosing themselves, which, unless they’re doctors, they have no business doing. I can’t very well diagnose myself with whatever disease I want to just make up, now can I? Certainly, no reputable doctor will diagnose anyone with PTLS, simply as it isn’t a condition granted any legitimacy, for reasons I explain here and in my post (reasons including there being no link between tubal ligation and the supposed syndrome it’s blamed for, no practical mechanism for tubal ligation to have the affect described, scientific research dispelling various PTLS claims, and PTLS just not being a real thing.)
So, as just one more thing, no, I am NOT “lucky” for having “post tubal ligation syndrome” after having a tubal ligation. I have the expected outcome. Sure, it’s possible to have some side-effects from surgery and anesthesia, but I wouldn’t even be called “lucky” for not having those as they’re not likely. But more than that, I can not be “lucky” for not having something that isn’t even real as far as anyone has been able to work out.
Please see below some of the VERY few studies done to actually look at the effect of a tubal NOT just the failure rates which are usually what is studied…
Home > August 1979 – Volume 54 – Issue 2 > Luteal Deficiency Among Women With Normal Menstrual Cycles,…
You could be reading the full-text of this article now…
if you become a society member (I am a society member ) if you become a subscriber (I am a subscriber ) if you purchase this article
If you have access to this article through your institution, you can view this article in OvidSP.
Obstetrics & Gynecology: Stage I Adenocarcinoma of the Endometrium: PDF Only
Luteal Deficiency Among Women With Normal Menstrual Cycles, Requesting Reversal of Tubal Sterilization
RADWANSKA, EWA MD; BERGER, GARY S. MD; HAMMOND, JOHN PhD
Forty women with normal menstrual cycles who had been sterilized by tubal ligation or electrocoagulation requested tubal reconstruction. As part of their preoperative evaluation, progesterone measurements were obtained in the midluteal phase (5-10 days before the next menstrual period). This group of women had a significantly lower (P < 0.005) mean midluteal progesterone level (9.4 +/- 4.7 ng/ml) than a control group of 24 women with infertile male partners attending the same clinic (17.4 +/- 7.1 ng/ml). In 25 (62%) of the sterilized women, progesterone levels were <= 10 ng/ml, whereas in the control group such low values were found in only 4 (17%) of the women. Thus, reduced midluteal serum progesterone concentration appears more common among women with prior tubal ligation or electrocoagulation than among a control population of apparently normal women.
(C) 1979 The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists
http://journals.lww.com/greenjournal/Abstract/1979/08000/Luteal_Deficiency_Among_Women_With_Normal.12.aspx
This also shows that there is been marked change is blood flow to the ovaries and the appearance of PCOS type ovaries after a TL, which can cause of of those symptoms you say do no exist…This is only a SMALL study and there are not many more like it… I have searched high and low and no one has taken on a large study to actually look at EFFECTS instead of failure rates.
Objectives
The objectives of this study were to evaluate ovarian sonographic morphology and pelvic blood flow in patients who had undergone bilateral tubal ligation by the Pomeroy technique.
Design
Twenty women who had undergone bilateral tubal ligation during cesarean section by the Pomeroy techniques were compared to 20 matched controls who had undergone cesarean section alone. Ovarian morphology as well as ovarian and uterine pulsatility index (PI), resistance index and peak systolic velocity were evaluated using transvaginal sonography and Doppler velocimetry.
Results
Patients post tubal ligation by the Pomeroy technique were found to have a significantly higher rate of polycystic appearance of the ovaries (60% vs. 5%; p < 0.005). Six patients (30%) had post tubal ligation symptoms, as compared to none of the controls. Five of the six symptomatic tubal ligation patients (83%) had ovarian polycystic appearance, which was not significantly different than asymptomatic patients. Ovarian artery PI was significantly higher in symptomatic patients (2.7 ± 1.9) compared to asymptomatic patients (1.5 ± 0.9) (p < 0.05).
Conclusions
We therefore conclude that patients post bilateral tubal ligation by the Pomeroy technique may acquire an ovarian polycystic appearance and increased ovarian PI, which may be associated with a tendency to develop post tubal ligation symptoms.
Here’s a diagram of of the blood vessels that supply the ovaries. Look at it tell me how severance of the fallopian tubes in any way affects blood supply to the ovaries, which are supplied by the ovarian artery, which, although it’s branches supply the fallopian tubes, doesn’t actually pass through the fallopian tubes itself. Sure, there are some variations in ovarian blood supply, but none of them would be likely to see much of any effect from severed fallopian tubes.
I also question the legitimacy of your study, at least it’s objectivity, as it presupposes that PTLS is a real thing. Check the last paragraph.
Also note that this study found no link between tubal ligation and menstrual abnormality.
My point was more research on PTLS is needed, so we have answers, not “opinions” on a syndrome you so strongly suggest via insulting posts is not real.
My second point is if u or anyone else reading theses posts suffer from the symptoms, I am sorry, because suffering SUCKS. and if u don’t have symptoms, I envy you, because again, suffering SUCKS.
If anyone is thinking of pulling out all their girly parts please go to: hersfoundation (link altered by juliewashere88 because I don’t like to give traffic to blatantly dishonest websites) they have a ton of information on a 17billion dollar a year “industry”. And a document on PTLS under medical journal articles that I have NOT ordered or read. Thanks M for the links you provided.
“My point was more research on PTLS is needed, so we have answers, not “opinions”….”
And my point is that research HAS been done, it just doesn’t support your opinion so you’re ignoring it and accusing anyone who points this research out as “insulting.” There have been over 200 studies, just that I know of, on PTLS. The few that lent it any credibility did not have the merit to survive in peer review.
Perhaps you’re not familiar with how academic and scientific research is done, or how medical studies are conducted, but they cost a lot of time and money. Why would people continue to look into a matter that’s already been thoroughly investigated and subsequently dismissed simply because you haven’t gotten the results that you wanted? You want more research on the matter? Do it and fund it. But when you do, keep your bias out of it.
Speaking of letting your personal biases lead to complete intellectual dishonesty, tubal ligation is NOT the same a hysterectomy and certainly does NOT involve anyone “pulling out all their girly parts” (“girly parts”? What are you, two?)Moreover, it is just as monumentally absurd to conflate the two completely different procedures as it is to pretend that providing either warrants use of the word “industry” (what, is there a pap-smear industry too?)
Never mind the fact that doctors are as resistant to providing hysterectomies as they are tubal ligation, even to women suffering from endometriosis, for no other reason than because of the sexist assumption that women MUST have babies. Funny, you’d think a 17billion dollar (what a complete bullshit number, by the way) a year “industry” would be more apt to sell their product.
By the way, I’m deleting the link to hersfoundation that you provided (of course, anyone can still google it.) Anyone who wants to know about the medically and scientifically dishonest, fear-mongering website can read this: An Open Letter to the HERS Foundation on the Anniversary of my Hysterectomy.
wow… you are a catty, sarcastic, snotty little twit aren’t you… Mommy must be so proud…
:::eye roll:::
I have a strong feeling you carry this ” I am ALWAYS right” chip on your shoulder everywhere you go…. Carry on then… I am out… No sense continuing to go back and forth with someone who cannot tactfully discuss something…
I make points and back them up with evidence, which you fail to refute. Meanwhile, you carry on not only ignoring evidence, logic, and everything that I say, all while mindlessly promoting your preconceived notion which you fail to back up in any way at all. (Well, you did cite a study that was done wrong with too small a control group, a control group that made no sense, and a conclusion that is debunked by a basic understanding of anatomy, in a study that it itself refuted by an overwhelming number of contrary and properly conducted studies.) To call this a discussion would mean giving you a generous amount of credit. I am talking to a wall.
And as as for the “I’m always right” chip, don’t project your faults on to me. You’re the one who has the weight of empirical evidence against you and still won’t admit wrong.
And what’s more, you not only carry on in the intellectually dishonest way described, but now you’ve actually resorted to petty name calling while accusing me of being the one lacking in tact. That would be funny if it weren’t so pathetic.
I don’t know how old your blog is but I’m soooo curious to know how did you do after the tubal ligation. Are you experiencing any PTLS symtoms or are you the same old you?
Ptls symptoms? Sure, I have a few ptls symptoms. So does my pregnant sister. So does my boyfriend. So do you, I bet.
Ptls is not real and so has no symptoms. Anyone determined to declare themselves to have Ptls will call any discomfort, any health issue, a Ptls symptom. When anyone can be bothered to define a list of Ptls symptoms, they’re so broad and varied between person to person, and so common with other conditions, that it’s frankly absurd that anyone can even call Ptls a syndrome at all.
Simply the only changes that I’ve experienced since my tubal have been from getting rid of my iud, and those changes have been for the better.
I am so confused by all of this really. I am going for my first appointment for my tubal ligation next month. I have two children and am 25. I had difficult pregnancies, births and a general dislike of the whole “baby” thing. Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE my kids, but I don’t see why anyone would want to have more and more screaming little things that are stuck on your tit 24/7 totally dependent on you. I breast fed both of mine for at least a year, stayed at home with them, did what I was “supposed” to do. I am happy with my family, and do not see the need to introduce another member that will take my time away yet again. I am currently pregnant and my abortion is tomorrow. Sorry if this offends anyone, but we cannot afford another child. Really I don’t want to be pregnant again. If I seriously want a child in a few years (which I HIGHLY doubt) I would adopt and love that child like my own. There are so many older children in need of homes. I experienced the “mommy” thing. It’s great I wouldn’t change it for the world. All my friends, who are single unmarried and don’t have children seem to think I am nuts for having my tubes done. I don’t see them paying for my babysitter so I don’t see how they volunteer their opinion. A lot of people in this world seem to have opinions that they choose to spew and force on others. I think everyone has a right to live their life their way, because they alone must live with the consequences.
Going back to the tubal thing, I am a little scared because I have been reading an over-whelming amount of “personal experiences” that show there are side effects, and debilitating ones at that. I would not want to have these things happen to me. Then again I have a high pain tolerance, train and fight in muay thai and find most women these days are plain sissies. Raised in Israel I have seen my share of pain of war, growing up downtown Toronto as an abandoned teen has made me tough. I have Rheumatoid Arthritis and suffer from chronic pain anyways, and continue with my life choosing to ignore it. I was fortunate to breast feed for a year and a half after my second child which prevented me from getting pregnant, but as soon as I stopped, BAM pregnant. I immediately had an abortion. Now I’m having another one. It’s a shame really because prior to my second child (an oops child) I had tried Mirena (bled for 6 months) and numerous contraceptives all with horrible side effects (which are pretty friggin close to this supposed syndrome). I also had a tubal pregnancy which ended in a 4 month along miscarriage in the middle of a construction site, while cutting a piece of wood. Really after everything I had gone through with the abortions, miscarriage and horrible fear of having more screaming babies to deal with (my two kids are throwing a tantrum as I type this…WHY THE FUCK have more???) I will take anything that the tubal will bring. Seriously, it can’t be any worse. I wish people would stop writing these exaggerated posts because now I’m scared shitless of something I deem necessary. Call me crazy I think there is enough people on this over-populated planet and there is no need to breed. How do you not feel “complete” after one or two children? You should feel complete no matter how many children you do or don’t have. In my native country it is normal for people to have 10 kids. All I ask is WHY??? Why should I be forced into this mommyhood for life? Is it so terrible I want my kids to hurry up and go to school so I can get my life back? So I can shower without being interrupted, so I can get back to work without giving my entire salary to childcare? It’s like I’m satan for not wanting anymore kids, and supposedly “killing” any pregnancies I’ve had since. Why would I lower the quality of life of my existing children to have more that I know I am not prepared for? Thank you Julie for making me feel a little better about my decision, as I have been on the internet for hours, literally freaked out thinking of not getting my tubes done in fear of this “syndrome”. I’ll keep a positive attitude about this procedure, and I probably won’t suffer from anything. The brain is a powerful thing, and I’m sure a lot of these women are subconsciously regretting they’re decision. At least I hope so….
First off, NEVER apologize for having an abortion. There is NOTHING wrong with having an abortion, no matter what your reason. You are doing what’s best for you and your family, and if anyone is offended by you standing up for yourself as a person and not merely a person-factory, they can fuck off. The same goes for having a tubal.
Here’s the thing about personal experiences, they don’t mean shit. Women who regret having tubals will blame their tubals every time they so much as her the sniffles. Generally, these women will be the only ones to write about their tubals and have their stories posted on the website of doctors who profit from reversal.
But the Fallopian tubes have nothing to do with hormone production or transference, nor do they have anything to do with blood flow. There is no reason a tubal would harm anyone, unless an ovary is accidentally damaged in the procedure. And if that’s the case, a tubal reversal wouldn’t fix it as these women claim. What’s really happening is these women are going off birth control, and then going back on, among other things. Talk to your doctor.
The majority of tubal stories are ones you’ll never read. Few people tell their stories when everything is perfectly fine. That’s why I told mine and am collecting the stories of other women to share. These irresponsible doctors who market medical myths to sell tubal reversals do a lot of damage to web with their lies, convincing women who have has tubals that ever ailment they might have is due to the tubal, and scaring women out of tubals.
There is nothing to be afraid of. Nothing. I has my tubal back in July and I’ve never felt healthier in my life. If you’re sure you want a tubal, get one. Don’t let anyone talk you out of it. Very, very few people ever regret being sterilized, despite “what if you change your mind?” invalidations.
Oh, and as for overpopulation, you’re absolutely right. Good on you for speaking up.
Julie I agree with you in that there is so much more that we as a society need to learn about how the female body works. There is definetly a lack of studies that need to be done in order to understand and legitimize a condition like PTLS.
But I disagree with you when you say it does not exist. Yes, it exists. There are just too many women complaining about it. And simply put, it is a perception that some women experience as an agravation of PMS symptoms, and menstrual symptoms, and pre menopausal symptoms. (You can look up to those symptoms on wikipedia, they are too long to post). And other symptoms inmediately after undergoing a tubal ligation surgery.
Not long ago (80′s if I’m not mistaken) woman complained about PMS and were told by medical doctors that “it was all in their heads”. As for now, it is widely accepted that it exists, and not only that, there are treatments and all to help those who suffer it, due to its incapacitating phisical, and emotional symptoms.
Not all women suffer PMS, and not all suffer to the same degree, not all suffer the same symptmons, and no, it is still not understood completely after years of studies, that have found some, but not all the facts.
Doctors need to be more compasionate with woman and not tell them is all in their heads, they need to find out and rule out other possible illnesses before sending women home.
Pain is a matter of perception, some people have a small or big pain threshold, and what could be an excruciating menstrual cramp for me, it might not be so for you. It is hard to measure. But when most of your life you used 4 tampons a day and right after the TL you are using 12 or more… this is measurable and should be investigated.
Anyways, just my two cents for you. And I was also curious on the nice drawings you posted from the irrigation system of the uterus/falopian tubes/ovaries. How about the innervation (nerves)? I would be far more concerned about the disection of nerves in the process of the surgery than the blood supply.
Best wishes!
There have been studies on PTLS. They all proved it fictional. It’s a made – up condition invented by regretful women out to blame their tubals and greedy doctors out to profit from reversals.
Plenty of people claim to have encountered ghosts too. Hell, I was briefly convinced that I’d even had a conversation with one once. That doesn’t make it real.
The weight of scientific evidence as well as basic knowledge of how the female repo ductile system works is against PTLS. Yes, some things really are just made up.
There are new discoveries made everyday by scientist, and there is so much more to learn. I bet you you’ll live long enough to see that PTLS will be a recognized entitiy just like it is PMS, by the medical comunity.
Maybe the pharmaceutical companies will see that it is to their benefit to sponsor the studies to prove how the TL meses up the hormonal system of some women. So more women will decide not to have the tubal, and spend their money on contraceptive products. It will happen, you’ll see.
You are assuming a conclusion not only in the absence of supporting evidence, but also in the face of strong evidence to the contrary. That is intellectually dishonest and irresponsible. You should be ashamed of blind, baseless faith. Do you have any idea what harm you cause to people who don’t know better by perpetuating this myth?
It’s not uncommon for antis to tell a similar lie, that abortion causes breast cancer. It doesn’t, and theres a wealth of evidence to prove it. Meanwhile, the antis haven’t got a shred. Yet antis perpetuate the myth because they don’t like abortion and want to scare women out of it.
Faith is the escence of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen! By definition. And nobody should be ashamed to have faith.
I don’t think I’m dishonest by hoping for cience to confirrm the link between TL and the suffering of many women, so they can find relief. I think is dishonest to deny their suffering and their right to speak up. You want to silence them for whatever reasons. Just let women know before they have a TL that they might suffer PTLS, if they decide to take the risk then so be it. But it is dishonest if doctors let you know about it after you already done it.
I actually applaud your unintended pro life choice and I hope it goes viral!. Let me explain: If people who do not intend to have babies all had a Tubal, there would be no need for abortions! They could go ahead and fool around all they wanted without unwanted pregnancies ( STD’s is another story).
Although, Tubals are not 100% effective, 1 in a 100 fail ( higest rate the younger you are). And that’s a problem. You might want your partner to get a vasectomy too. ( Have you heared about post vasectomy syndrome?). Just to make sure.
I think you’re great Julie, you’re unique, one of a kind. Makes me think that at some point you were just a speck in your mother’s womb, with the genetic material needed to make you. Thank God your mother decided to let you be there until you were born, and then cared for you until you grew up to be who you are.
Hope not to get you all defensive. I pretty much have an idea what your response to this is going to be…don’t bother insulting me. Peace to you! Adios!
Faith is irrational belief in the absence of evidence, and even in the face of conflicting evidence. It’s a delusion that keeps people believing in ghosts and gods. It’s a disease of the mind, and one that has always kept humanity from finding real answers to questions and problems.
You keep assuming ptls without any reason to do so besides what you want to be true. That’s not reasonable in any way. It’s counter productive. And if any women who have nonsensically diagnosed themselves with ptls really are suffering, your mindless faith in ptls will keep them from finding the real problem and the real cure.
And what’s more, you want doctors to lie to women getting tubals, women who are no doubt already nervous about surgery, just to validate your bullshit. That is SICK! What other lies should doctors have to tell trusting patients just to make you feel better?
Yes, I’ve head of “post vasectomy syndrome,” another shameful myth. Do you believe in Santa too?
Oh, I see, you’re one of those pro-liars. No wonder you don’t care about women, reproductive health, science, medicine, or truth.
Actually, I was never a speck in my mother’s womb just like you were never a speck in your father’s balls. I am, by definition, a sentient being. Without that, there I no “me” to be anything at all.
And no, I’m not about to thank your imaginary friend for a damned thing. Hell, I won’t even thank my mom for HER CHOICE. No one is done any favors by being forced into existence. In fact, breeding more into an overpopulated world is downright irresponsible and selfish. I don’t thank anyone for it.
Julie, with all due respect, I was not a speck in my father’s balls. It took for him to “spit” a gazillion microscopic tadpoles into my mom’s womb, and from all those only one joined my mom’s egg and fertilized it, and then yes, I started as a speck then in her womb, and so did you. Had it been another egg or another spermatozoid, it would not be me, but someone else totally different. (What are the chances?)
Think about that cigote, a cell that has all the info to make YOU! And has the capability to change the woman’s phisiology to make it possible. Pretty mind blowing, think about things you don’t “see” but do exist!
I think you should thank your mother for not aborting you. Heck, I’ll call my mom and thank her for not aborting me, and for not dumping me in the trash and walking away after I was born!
I meant to write zygote, not cigote
A zygote isn’t a person, and it’s monumentally stupid to pretend that it is. A zygote has no more “information” than any other cell in your body, which a whole new person could be cloned from. But I doubt that you pretend to be millions of people for this reason.
A person is a mind, a sentient, sapient being. Without that, there is no you and no me.
Why should I thank someone for forcing me into existence, especially a doomed existence that everyone suffers and dies because of? To give both is a selfish action, and one that does no favors to the new person existence is imposed upon. I’m done no favors by it. I didn’t ask to exist. It’s not like I would know the difference if I never existed.
That would be the effect of my mother having an abortion – I would have simply never existed. At such a time, there was no me to be affected. It would have been impossible to abort me. What is aborted would have been the pregnancy that eventually resulted in my existence. My mother having an abortion would have been no different from her not having sex.
Do you thank your dad for not getting a blow job or anal? Do you curse your parents for every missed pregnancy opportunity, all your brothers and sisters who could have existed?
It took you a while to come back.
Julie, even if you cloned yourself that clon would not be you!
There is no other way you would be here on earth writing your witty ideas if that especial cell called a zygote would not have been allowed to develop.
I doubt a born baby has any conscience of existing than one that has not been born yet. That does not justify destroying it because of someonelse’s inconvenience.
Why you cannot thank the person that brought you to this world escapes my comprehension, especially considering that it would have been okay with you if for her convenience she would just destroyed you, when you were not able to defend yourself.
Let me ask you something, do you celebrate your birthdays? I don’t imagine you go “Shit!, not another one! I so hoped to be dead by now!….oh man, maybe next year”
You know what, I bet your mom is your fan numer one and she reads your blog, so I’ll thank her for not killing you when she could: Thank you Julie’s mom for not aborting her, I think she’s a great writer, and no one in the world is able to do what she does, the way she does it. She is unique and you let her live.
I don’t think there’s anything else to say on my part, I understand your ideas although I don’t share them. Nothing wrong with that. Sayonara!
And I do thank my parents for not aborting any of my brothers or sister. My oldest brother was unplanned, so I thank my mom for doing the right thing (though not the easiest thing). I also thank my MIL for not aborting my husband, unplanned also.
Would you look at that, I did have more to say!
What about the siblings they DIDN’T have?
1. Again, I can’t be destroyed when there is no me. I can not be killed at a time before my own existence. Do you have any idea how insane you look for continuing to demand otherwise?
2. NO abortion is “convenient.” You’re either a terrible misogynist or woefully ignorant. I’m not sure which is worse.
3. A “born baby” is the only kind there is. And yes, they ARE conscious. More importantly, as they aren’t inside anybody. There is no body to remove them from. Or do you intentionally ignore the FACT that abortion is about a woman’s body?
4. Just because I, as an actual person who now exists, prefers being alive to being dead does NOT mean that being forced into existence is better than simply never existing in the first place.
Your ideas are anti-woman and anti-human and there is a lot wrong with that.
Julie, you are the one not making any sense at all, for real, take a step back and think hard on what makes you think like that, you are really messed up and really “doomed” , and I say it with a sad heart. I was hoping to break into your stony heart some sense.
Life doesn’t make any sense without God, does it? (Not any god, but the real God, the God of the Bible). I know you don’t believe in him, I know you believe you descend from the monkeys, and you believe the bing bang theory, which to believe in that requires more faith than believing in God, for you have no scientific evidence backing up all that boloney. Study it a little when you have time. And evidence of God is everyWhere. The earth is filled with his glory.
I enjoy a good debate but all things must come to an end. I can’t continue with this due to time, and frankly makes me sad to see what is in your heart.
I hope someday you experience God in a personal and deep way, that would change you forr ever. Julie, Jesus said I am the way, the truth, and the life and no one comes to the Father except through me. Let him in your heart. You still can. Go to him when you get tired of living like that
I have a stony heart? Why? Because I’m free of the delusion that traps you? I can’t help but find It ironic that you would accuse my “heart” of fault considering how your anti-abortion position gets 67-68 THOUSAND women killed every year. How does your conscience deal with that? Do you ever think about your victims? Are you ever haunted by their screams?
I see you don’t understand how science works.. I suppose this would explain your certainty that PTLS is a reality, despite lack of evidence on your part, and plenty of evidence against it on mine, and your complete inability to argue anything based on merit rather than appeal to what you simply wish to be true. Unlike religion and other delusions, science bases all conclusions on falsifiable evidence and subjects itself to the scrutiny of peer-review. All conclusions must stand on their merits or be discarded. Not only does science not require faith, it does not allow it. There is strong evidence for the fact of evolution as well as the “big bang,” and none against either. If you could be bothered to do honest research, if you could be bothered to put down your scientifically and historically impossible Bible and actually pick up some non-fiction, you would know this.
But there is no evidence for god, your particular version or any other. And there never has been, despite desperate apologetics. Nothing about life on this planet or the universe as a whole makes any sense with the invocation of fanciful, supernatural beings. God didn’t make man, we made god in our own imaginations.
Don’t kid yourself. This isn’t a debate. You brought nothing of merit to the discussion, just your own biases and delusions.
I hope some day you experience enlightenment and honesty, knowledge and rationality. Reality is better than myth, any day. It’s sad and pathetic that otherwise intelligent people still cling to their senseless and primitive religious beliefs, and even worse, use their religion as an excuse to justify their bigotry and general inhumanity. It’s sick. It’s sad. And it makes me weep for the human race which should be above such nonsense. I wish you could wake up. I wish you could grow up. I wish you could unshackle yourself from Plato’s Cave and see the beautiful truth of the real world. I wish that doing so could finally allow you to let go of your hateful view of women. You and the world would benefit greatly if you would only realize that you were trapped in your ignorance, and you hold the key to free yourself and to find knowledge, and that key is rationalism.
Julie, I wasn’t going to read what your answer was. But, hey, I’m a curious person. I must confess you have softened up your tone a lot! Looks like you didn’t researched info about evolution and the such. And I just wanted to throw a couple of ideas at you, so you don’t stay with what you heared from your 5th grade teacher, since it seems you like research and evidence.
* So let’s suppose for a moment BingBang the world is done. Then evolution says that from the first cell (amoeba?) all the other more complicated forms of life evolved. But for that 1st life to be, they need to use “unknown” substances, that reacted in an unknown way, during an unknown period of time. That is not demonstrable and repeatable, and requires a lot of imagination and “faith”. Not science at all.
* It is said that the probability of the human gene to be created by chance is the same as the probability of a tornado to pass by a scrapyard and expect a boing 767 airplane to come out of that.
When you see a sculpture of Michaelangelo, you don’t say : Oh, it must have taken a million years, a few explosions, and some random reactions to create this!. No. When there is a creation, there must be a creator.
The world is full of creations, that have beauty, order, purpose, working magnificently without flaws. Too good to believe it was created by chance. There is a creator more crafty, more smart, more powerful, who created this world, and created YOU, to enjoy him forever, if you give him the chance.
I didn’t make this info up, it’s said by scientist, and there is more. Look for yourself, look with eyes and heart wide open. Be curious!
Patty, you’re hilarious! You’ve been making a ton of logical fallacies on this page, but this last one is called The God of the Gaps, which is a variation on the logical fallacy of Argument From Ignorance. Again, hilarious!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance
Also, the first cell is not an amoeba. And the fact that we can’t recreate the Big Bang doesn’t mean we can’t make scientific assertions about how it happened. Just like we can’t put a plane that crashed back together, nor recreate its crash, but we can determine how the plane looked, and what circumstances caused it to crash.
Holy shit, lady. I can’t believe that you can, with a presumably straight face, accuse me of not doing my research, and then you turn right around and demonstrate that you know even less than a quick browse through wikipeida could tell you.
1. The big bang theory and evolution have absolutely jack shit to do with each-other, apart from being demonstrably scientifically and historically verifiable. The big bang theory (which, by the way, was not a literal explosion) is the basis of cosmology, while evolution is the basis of biology. They aren’t the same. They’re not even related.
2. Just because you’re too lazy to do enough research to understand the basic concepts of abiogenisis does not mean that it’s a complete unknown. Don’t assume that everyone shares your proud ignorance. Evolution doesn’t actually say anything about where ANY life came from. It’s a theory that exists to explain the diversity of life, not the origin of it. That is the job of abiogenisis, which may have similarities to evolution, but isn’t the same thing. Neither field of study says any such nonsense that all life derived from amoebas. That is nonsense!
3. Fortunately, neither the genes of humans, nor of any other species, are actually brought into existence by chance. Chance has nothing to do with evolution at all. Evolution serves to explain how seemingly complex organisms can arise without the involvement of chance. Simply, genes which are beneficial for an organism in a given environment will be the one’s most likely to be successful in the population. Organisms reproduce with variation. Gradually, these genes are built upon, the population becoming so distinct from the population that spawned it that they can no longer interbreed successfully – a new species.
4. Sculptures do not have genes, nor the ability to reproduce with variation. You’re comparing inanimate objects with organic life forms, as if both need to be created and that is just plain STUPID!
5. Actually, “beauty” is entirely subjective and ins’t an inherent quality in anything, and there is no order or inherent purpose to anything, in this non-created world which is full of flaws, which you would see if you’d only stop wallowing in your delusions.
6. You have absolutely no evidence for a creator, let alone any particular one. You are using your imaginary friend as a band-aid so you don’t have to act like a fucking adult and you some honest research for once in your life and look for real answers.
But sure, I’ll play along for just a minute. Suppose your one true santa really did make everything. Who made him?
OK, I calmed down a bit. Sorry, I get a headache when I see such proud ignorance. I’m going to try to be nice now.
Here, I found a series of videos that explain the basics of the basics Barney-style. It will never replace an actual scientific education on the subjects, of course, but it will at least correct your misconceptions and special pleading.
If you want to keep talking to me about science, then at least have a very, very, very basic understanding of what you’re talking about. Watch these videos and THEN come back. http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDB23537556D7AADB&feature=plcp
Patty Clark.
Looks like you’ve fallen for the daft idea that repeating that infantile nonsense is going to make people think your ignorant superstition trumps science and learning and that somehow you know better than people who have bothered to learn the facts and who spend their lives researching it.
It isn’t working, I’m afraid. It’s just making you look ignorant and superstitious. Do you remember who fooled you with it? Did you give them any money?
If you had the courage, you could read the real science from masses of on-line sources with a quick search on Google, or in books which you can buy from any decent book shop. Give it a try and come back if there is anything you get stuck with.
You could do worse than reading this, if your faith is strong enough to risk it: So You Think You Don’t Believe In Evolution
It is only 10 days until my tubal ligation and I am still felling very strongly about my decision. I have tried other methods of birth control such as the pill (which I ALWAYS forget) and “the shot” which has cause numerous side effects. I am a single 29 years old returning college student/mother of a 3 year old son that has recently been diagnosed with autism. Our days are racked full of work, appointments, tantrums, school tasks, therapy sessions, hugs, kisses and tears and after a much debated abortion one year ago I have made the finally decision that I do not want any more children. PERIOD. I am extremely happy with my choice but after some research I am concerned about the recovery. I am having my surgery on a Friday morning and have taken time off from work until that following Tue. (4 days of recovery) Will that be enough time? My son will be staying with family for that weekend but will return on Monday. By then will I be able to properly care for him on my own? Also I am a sucker for pain – do you have any at home advice for the recovery period – medication to take? Heat pad? ETC…
Thank you in advance for any guidance.
Have a great day!
Congrats on getting your tubal scheduled, and seeing past all this anti-sterilization bullshit.
Your story sounds very similar to a friend of mine. She has a son who just turned 6 who has autism, and she also had an abortion a few years ago which she spoke publicly about so as to help destigmatize the procedure (there is NOTHING wrong with having an abortion, and don’t ever let anyone tell you otherwise.) If I remember right, she wants to get a hysterectomy but has so far been unable to do so.
As for recovery time, that varies from person to person, as well as the specifics of the procedure. I can only speak for myself. For me, I was released from the hospital a few hours after surgery, then came home to sleep off the anesthesia. Before the day was out, I was out and about shopping and attending to various errands with my boyfriend. It’s not like I was bound to bed, I just wasn’t going on any hikes.
My incisions were small and never hurt. At worst, they itched a bit once they scabbed over. The incisions were raised for a while, but eventually flattened out. Now my scars are so small and so faint one would have to be looking for them to find them.
For the fist few days, my only problem was the air that was left in my abdomen. If I shifted from sitting to laying too quickly, the air would shift suddenly which does NOT feel nice. It wasn’t unbearable though. I never even too the Vicodin that I was prescribed. Apart from that, the pressure caused by the bubble made me run out of breath easily. It took about a week for my body to absorb all the air, and after that I was fine.
It’s definitely good to have a few days off work and have your kid staying somewhere else while you recover. It’s not that you wouldn’t be able to take care of your kid, it’s that you shouldn’t have to worry about it for a bit. The more time you spend relaxing, the better you’ll feel and you deserve that.
As for pain, like I said, the only problem that I had is the air. Just sit up and lay down very, very slowly. A heat pad might help if you experience cramping, but I didn’t have any. You might have a sore throat for a day or two because of the tube they place, you can just treat that as normal (make sure you drink plenty of fluids!) Similarly, you might feel sore when you urinate as you’re likely to be given a catheter; I’m not sure that there’s much you can do about that. Your doctor will probable prescribe Vicodin or something similar, but I didn’t really need anything that strong and stuck with Motrin. If you think you might need Vicodin, you might want to also as your doctor for ZoFran if opioids make you nauseous (strong pain meds make me sick.)
I wrote about my tubal ligation procedure on this page, which you might find helpful. http://hikinghumanist.com/2011/07/12/sterilized-on-world-population-day/
I sincerely hope this helps, and if you have any more questions, please do ask.
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